Where Can I Get Inexpensive Bolts, Hangers, and Rings???

Anyone out there know of cheap supplier of hardware? I'm looking to get about 50 bolts, hangers,etc. to put up new routes.

Munky

Joseph DeGaetano wrote:Anyone out there know of cheap supplier of hardware? I'm looking to get about 50 bolts, hangers,etc. to put up new routes. Munky

Location and type of rock?

New River Gorge. It's bullet sandstone and really anything will work, but I'd like to get stainless steel. The plated steel looks fine also. Does anyone know the difference between the two and how well the plated lasts over the long haul?

I will not be bolting in the National Park, which is a royal pain in the ass and mostly tapped out as far as true, quality sport climbs go. Instead, I'll be bolting in one of the nearby sectors.

3/8 inch bolt length will be perfect. Fixe has a deal on 3/8 bolt with SS hanger for $6 a peice. A bit pricy. I was hoping to find some sort of wholesale, or pro/bro deal.

Bolting properly is not cheap. You just have to face that, though you can find deals. $6 for a good bolt and hanger is cheap. Non stainless is not OK at the New. There is quite a bit of moisture there. Plate will not last long enough and to use it is to be doing it jacked and will have to be redone. The community will be better off if you just choose your best lines and do them up well, rather than cheaping out to get a few more in.

Joseph DeGaetano wrote:New River Gorge.

If you're going to be putting up new routes in one of the country's premier sport climbing destinations, it's probably best not to start the conversation with a question of how to do it as cheaply as possible.

JD, Please do not install crap-ass bolts. Yes it costs more to do the job right. Part of the game.
For years I've said that owning a drill does not qualify one to use the damn thing. Please get some advice from someone that knows the score. Go down to Waterstone and talk to Kenny.

If you really need to poke some holes go right ahead. But do the job right. Five years from now other climbers will say 'let's go do that awesome route with great pro over there!' and you'll be stoked! Or other climbers will say 'yeah too bad the pro is bunk 'cause it's a great line.' and you'll feel regret for not having done the job right in the first place.

OK I'm done.

Install SS bolts and hangers only.

i don't think there's anything wrong with trying to do it as cheaply as possible. entitled d-bags will always find an issue with anything done by anyone other than themselves. the better question is if you still want to bolt after putting up w/ thank-less d-bags that don't appreciate your efforts OR your wallet.

i think climbing has more independently wealthy, trust-fund types with too much time, too much money, and not enough meaning in their lives outside of rock climbing than any other recreational pursuit i've found (including skiing/ snowboarding).

check out fixe's website and get on their mailing list, they often have great, really cheap sales. beware mountain project bro, lots of absolute trolls.

jon

Jon O'Brien wrote:i don't think there's anything wrong with trying to do it as cheaply as possible. entitled d-bags will always find an issue with anything done by anyone other than themselves. the better question is if you still want to bolt after putting up w/ thank-less d-bags that don't appreciate your efforts OR your wallet. i think climbing has more independently wealthy, trust-fund types with too much time, too much money, and not enough meaning in their lives outside of rock climbing than any other recreational pursuit i've found (including skiing/ snowboarding). check out fixe's website and get on their mailing list, they often have great, really cheap sales. beware mountain project bro, lots of absolute trolls. jon

I doubt many, if any of us, are even close to wealthy. I know it is a struggle for me to afford putting up my routes, but I refuse to do a half assed job. I think anyone installing fixed gear on public cliffs has that obligation. If I can't afford the bolts at the moment, I get the route all cleaned and as ready to go as I can and bolt it later. If people know you do a good job, it is likely there will be some who will help you out funding the bolts.

It is not a case of people not apreciating someone putting their effort and money into new routing. It should just not be done badly. Many of the great cliffs of the south had to be rebolted because of cheaping out by the original bolter, making a lot of extra work and putting people needlessly at risk.

These are the best prices I've found on SS Power Studs. Pair this with the Fixe SS hanger deal (100 for $230) and you have good hardware at around $4 per bolt/hanger. Cost a bit upfront but totally worth it.

$2 Stainless Steal Hangers and they have cheap rap rings too.

climbxgear.com/hanger.aspx

Monty wrote:These are the best prices I've found on SS Power Studs. Pair this with the Fixe SS hanger deal (100 for $230) and you have good hardware at around $4 per bolt/hanger. Cost a bit upfront but totally worth it.

My issue with the Powers PowerStud is they don't spec out well in the 3/8in size. MAX shear strength is 16.9 kN. That's pretty crappy compared to Hilti KB3s at 26.5kN and Fixe at 22kN.

According to John O'b above though, I'm being an elitist, rich prick with no meaning in my life by asking for long life bolts that at least get close to UIAA or EN fixed anchor specs.

How dare I ask for safe gear that doesn't rust out in under a decade.

Jon O'Brien wrote:i don't think there's anything wrong with trying to do it as cheaply as possible. entitled d-bags will always find an issue with anything done by anyone other than themselves. jon

Its not about being entitled. Thats just part of the excuse people use to validate being cheap. Its about taking care of your chosen climb. Its about being responsible for the longterm health of the crag and, maybe, a fellow climber. If you don't want it to be replaced... if you want people to do the route for many years to come and to look at your name on the F.A. and say "Wow, he really did this thing right.", you put in the good equipment.

Considering your environment Joseph, I think it really behooves you to place stainless steel. And yes, its more expensive. However, it's effectively your signature on that climb. Put it up in a way you can be proud... if its worth the effort, its worth the cost.

Joseph DeGaetano wrote:New River Gorge. It's bullet sandstone and really anything will work, but I'd like to get stainless steel. The plated steel looks fine also. Does anyone know the difference between the two and how well the plated lasts over the long haul? I will not be bolting in the National Park, which is a royal pain in the ass and mostly tapped out as far as true, quality sport climbs go. Instead, I'll be bolting in one of the nearby sectors. 3/8 inch bolt length will be perfect. Fixe has a deal on 3/8 bolt with SS hanger for $6 a peice. A bit pricy. I was hoping to find some sort of wholesale, or pro/bro deal.

Judging by the types of questions you are asking and your lackadaisical attitude towards choosing the right material, I think you should reconsider bolting anything until you obtain a little more experience. My suggestion would be to get with someone in your area to learn how to bolt routes and how to select the type and grade of bolt suitable for your application. If you install improper material, or do a poor job bolting a route, there is a chance your routes will just get chopped, or worse yet, someone could get injured. Enlight of the bolting thread in the gear section and my personal experience with climbing in the NRG, it appears there is already a large amount of improperly installed bolts there - certainly more than most places.

I agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to save money. However, there are certain quality requirements that need to be considered when bolting routes. You can select the least expensive bolt that is suitable for your application, but you cannot simply buy the absolute least expensive bolt that exists. The product you are looking to buy is being used for a safety critical application so it is important you do it right.

As far as the difference between Zinc Plated Carbon Steel (ZPCS) and Stainless Steel goes, ZPCS is standard mild steel that has been plated in zinc to help reduce corrosion. SS is an entirely different alloy that contains significantly more chromium, and in some cases molybdenum, to help protect against material corrosion. In most applications, SS is far superior to ZPCS in terms of lifespan and corrosion resistance. As it relates to climbing, SS is a far superior choice and the only appropriate choice for long-term applications in most environments (including the NRG).

If you do choose not to follow our advise and go with ZPCS material, make sure you buy ZPCS hangers and bolts. Do not place a SS hanger on a ZPCS bolt or vice versa.

Lastly, you can try these guys: rapbolting.com/bolts

You can get a SS bolt and hanger from them for about four bucks.

mattm wrote: My issue with the Powers PowerStud is they don't spec out well in the 3/8in size. MAX shear strength is 16.9 kN. That's pretty crappy compared to Hilti KB3s at 26.5kN and Fixe at 22kN. According to John O'b above though, I'm being an elitist, rich prick with no meaning in my life by asking for long life bolts that at least get close to UIAA or EN fixed anchor specs. How dare I ask for safe gear that doesn't rust out in under a decade.

Power's engineering data is a bit cryptic. For example, they say the 3/8" carbon steel PS bolt holds 16.9 kN in 1 5/8", 2", and 3" versions, but it holds 23 kN in 4 1/4" versions. If the breaking strength of the 1 - 3" versions are all the exact same, that means the concrete is strong enough to allow for the physical failure of the bolt, in which going with a longer bolt should not affect the failure strength. Also, their stainless steel bolts seem to have precisely the same breaking strength as their carbon steel version in every category ranging from 1/4" to 3/4". I find that pretty questionable unless the concrete is breaking, which it is not. Stainless steel generally is really close to grade five carbon steel specs, but it is not often precisely the same. I called Powers and one of their engineers is going to call me back.

But, I agree that striving for a bolt that will meet the UIAA strength requirements of 20 kN in tension and 25 kN in sheer is a very good idea. Fortunately it is easy to solve that problem by simply going with 1/2" bolts or choosing a different option such as the Power-Bolt.

Wow, never expected to get so much traffic on this post. BUT, I'm glad to have received it. Lots of good points and considerations from just about everyone.

I'm a local, I know Kenny, Gene, and I'm an active member of NRAC. I've only put up 6 routes (all gear, except 1 sport route) but feel pretty confident on getting the job done well.

NRAC uses only SS equipment and they will probably donate most of what I will use but I didn't want to ask them for 50 bolts worth of hardware for an area that is off the beaten path and sees very little trafffic. With that said, from the comments I've read and after talking to a few others it seems like SS will last longer (though plated will last a good 10 years unless placed in a major drip zone)and I will choose them because the price isn't much more and I (like others mentioned) would rather use the highest quality equipment available.

That 4 dollar per bolt/hanger through Fixe seems like a pretty good deal. I'll have to look into the ClimbX site and their prices.
Any other deals out there?

Joseph DeGaetano wrote:Wow, never expected to get so much traffic on this post. BUT, I'm glad to have received it. Lots of good points and considerations from just about everyone. I'm a local, I know Kenny, Gene, and I'm an active member of NRAC. I've only put up 6 routes (all gear, except 1 sport route) but feel pretty confident on getting the job done well. NRAC uses only SS equipment and they will probably donate most of what I will use but I didn't want to ask them for 50 bolts worth of hardware for an area that is off the beaten path and sees very little trafffic. With that said, from the comments I've read and after talking to a few others it seems like SS will last longer (though plated will last a good 10 years unless placed in a major drip zone)and I will choose them because the price isn't much more and I (like others mentioned) would rather use the highest quality equipment available. That 4 dollar per bolt/hanger through Fixe seems like a pretty good deal. I'll have to look into the ClimbX site and their prices. Any other deals out there?

Glad to see you're going SS. Well worth the extra (slightly) expense. The ClimbTech guys make a good SS hanger and I believe they're due out with a SS 5-piece style bolt but BETTER. I think they're also picking up dist. of the WaveBolt (SS Glue In) that will get you sub $6 SS. Awesome price. Also check with JimT or your contacts as they were using Jim's bolts at some point I believe

mattm wrote: Glad to see you're going SS. Well worth the extra (slightly) expense. The ClimbTech guys make a good SS hanger and I believe they're due out with a SS 5-piece style bolt but BETTER. I think they're also picking up dist. of the WaveBolt (SS Glue In) that will get you sub $6 SS. Awesome price. Also check with JimT or your contacts as they were using Jim's bolts at some point I believe

They are already selling the Wave Bolt. I dont think it is on their website yet, but if you call them I am sure you can get some.

Bump. Anyone know the cheap source for hangers (SS) these days? Still the Climbx Site?

-Dan

Edit did not realize old post

FIXE Clearance Sales and Climbtech Hangers are good but decent price.

This particular issue is long settled, but I'd just like to add for any future considerations that ten years is a terrible, really unacceptable lifetime for something that involves the permanent modification of the natural scene. I've seen fixed pitons last longer than that. Ten years may seem like a long time when it is half or a third of the lifetime of the developer, but this is not an occasion for youthful outlooks.

There are some routes (trad routes thank god) that I've done once every ten years for fifty years. With ten-year bolts the route would be in deteriorating shape every damn time I revisited it. I'd say minimal projected lifetime should be fifty years. It may not always work out that way, but that's what a responsible developer should be aiming for.

And claiming that there is something elitist about using equipment appropriate to a safe and effective job is absurd. Responsible route development costs money. The developer either has to have it, earn it, or raise it, and if they can't do any of those things, then they have no business at the business end of a drill. This is literally a matter of life and death for all those who come after.