Bolts next to Cracks

To Whom (else) it may concern I am concerned that placing bolts next to cracks sets a poor precedent. 

Oh, good - another bolting war thread.

This is new and exciting.

Looks to be sort of a squeeze job, IMHO.

Poor style 4 sure

A bolted 5.6 slab? Like more than 2 bolts per pitch? When did climbing become less exciting than knitting?

Guy Keesee wrote:Looks to be sort of a squeeze job, IMHO. Poor style 4 sure

Defined by who? You and dlight? Really I'm just giving you a hard time Guy, because you generally seem to be pretty level headed about your commentary on MP and I think that dlight's comments and picture selection grossly overstate the issue for this route.

I saw dlight put up a caustic post over on the page for this climb (see here: mountainproject.com/v/fract… )

Anyone who has done this route or climbed anything over on this side of the Helen's Dome/Sheeprock massif knows that the bulk of this climb does not run parallel to a crack 3 feet away (contrary to what dlight tries to imply in his two posts). It actually climbs up a relatively long sweep of nice stone that is not very near to any crack system. Its not over bolted and its not a squeeze job. In fact, most folks climb this route with a small selection of nuts and cams to supplement the bolts.

Is it a sport route? No. Is the route hard? Nope. Do people seem to think this route is super fun and a worthy addition to the SPlatte? It would seem so given the star ratings and comments.

Now, what about "bolted" cracks on this route? Can you traverse over and place some gear off of the route line? I guess. But I can do that on any number of routes at countless destinations (including "trad" areas like the Meadows or SoYo....if this route is a problem, then nearly every route on Fresno Dome is a total travesty). I guess if I want to wander all over creation just to satisfy my ethical pureness I can place gear "near" to the bolts. The key here is that one person's "allowable" distance between bolts and nearby cracks is different than another person's metric. It is certainly a grey area. But the bolting on this climb doesn't even warrant discussion. I just shook my head and let out a sigh when I first read dlight's comments. My advice to dlight would be to go find something better to complain about. The rest of us will enjoy this route as is and not lose sleep over it.

J. Albers wrote: But the bolting on this climb doesn't even warrant discussion. I just shook my head and let out a sigh when I first read dlight's comments. My advice to dlight would be to go find something better to complain about. The rest of us will enjoy this route as is and not lose sleep over it.

haha right on.

And despite the 2 "extra" bolts on the 6 pitch climb, i think this route was established in great style.

dlight, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the route go to the right from the picture you showed? away from the crack?

Is this you bro?

As usual, J. nails it.

Thank you Gentlemen, for your wisdom, and the advice.

J. Albers .... I guess pictures can't tell/show the whole story....

So I with draw my statement cause the crack goes that a ways and the face goes this way.

Works for me, except I hate those Euro bolts on low angle stuff.

How about this for some crack bolting? At a "trad" area, no less.

BOOM

There may be times where bolting a crack is acceptable, depending on the area. For example, at a sport climbing crag where a route is almost entirely face climbing and it may have a small section with a crack on it. In many cases, I feel there is little point to make a route mixed when it's almost entirely bolted anyway and it resides on a sport wall. I have seen routes like this and in most cases they just never get climbed since not many people are going to bring a rack to a sport crag to protect one move of one route.

Also, it depends on the quality of the crack and rock. Not many people, myself included, would bolt a splitter crack, even if it's only 15' long and in the middle of a sport wall. But a small flair that only takes micro RPs, and it's part of a sport route on a sport wall, sure I could see that getting bolted.

not as epic as ryans... but i did watch someone stick clip there way all the top of this climb

Wheat Thin in Yosemite is bolts next to a crack/flake.

I think in the not too distant future Gym climbers will take over the climbing scene and many trad routes will be bolted.France is a good example.

As a guy that chopped several bolted cracks in my younger days, I now have no problem with people bolting a crack if it's a new line at an area that is predominately sport climbing.

Bolting long established trad lines is really weak sauce and should always remain taboo.

If you want to lead the thing on gear don't clip the bolts. I've done this on many climbs.

The old argument that the bolts give the leader a way to chicken out is more a reflection of a weak leader than the route itself.

Weak.

Jimbo wrote:As a guy that chopped several bolted cracks in my younger days, I now have no problem with people bolting a crack if it's a new line at an area that is predominately sport climbing. Bolting long established trad lines is really weak sauce and should always remain taboo. If you want to lead the thing on gear don't clip the bolts.

I think that can also add some enjoyment to the experience of the route. There are quite a few sport climbs in Clear Creek Canyon that can go either entirely (or mostly) on gear, and it can be really fun to challenge yourself to make it happen without clipping the bolts. Clear Creek is a great example of what I find acceptably w/r/t bolts near cracks given the nature of the rock and the general accepted local ethics.

Jimbo wrote:As a guy that chopped several bolted cracks in my younger days, I now have no problem with people bolting a crack if it's a new line at an area that is predominately sport climbing. Bolting long established trad lines is really weak sauce and should always remain taboo. If you want to lead the thing on gear don't clip the bolts. I've done this on many climbs. The old argument that the bolts give the leader a way to chicken out is more a reflection of a weak leader than the route itself.

Once you open the door to bolting cracks no matter what the excuse...the new wave will have started.But what the heck it will be put down to progress.One pitch sport routes already seem to be prefered by the majority of climbers as they do not involve the risk factor.