Ignorance

http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html?/video/us/2013/10/18/newday-pkg-pereira-goblin-rock-vandals.cnn&hpt=hp_c3&from_homepage=yes

What a bonehead . Hope justice is served .

saw this earlier today on youtube's homepage before it ended up in the mainstream news.

total jackasses.

"One gust of wind and a family's dead... I don't regret it at all. I'd do it again."

So let me get this straight Boy Scouts... Homosexuals can't be scout leaders, but ignorant fat red necks can? Sheesh

This infuriated me when I saw it.

"Glenn Taylor said Thursday afternoon that he was the man who pushed over the formation, while Dave Hall filmed and Dylan Taylor looked on."

"...spokesman Eugene Swalberg, noting that a criminal investigation is underway by State Parks authorities."

Is there anything we can do to push for proper punishment? Just my guess, but they'll get off with a slap on the wrist. There should be huge fines and/or tons community service (I'd push for jail, but that would ultimately suck more money away from the park services). It needs to be shown that there are harsh repercussions for this kind of vandalism.

Nate C wrote:This infuriated me when I saw it. "Glenn Taylor said Thursday afternoon that he was the man who pushed over the formation, while Dave Hall filmed and Dylan Taylor looked on." "...spokesman Eugene Swalberg, noting that a criminal investigation is underway by State Parks authorities." Is there anything we can do to push for proper punishment? Just my guess, but they'll get off with a slap on the wrist. There should be huge fines and/or tons community service (I'd push for jail, but that would ultimately suck more money away from the park services). It needs to be shown that there are harsh repercussions for this kind of vandalism.

I don't know how much that would help. Most anyone stupid enough to think knocking over an ancient boulder is probably not a news junkie and wouldn't even know those guys ended up getting their just due.

^^^+10 Nate. They had the camera ready for the act of vandalism, where was the camera when the "children" he was protecting were in danger?

They will get the book... Top 3 story on Google... They're done.

They will get away with it. It isn't human history, only geologic. We are talking about an offence in the state with the worlds largest (I believe) open pit mine.

To further protect them in Utah, the pusher said "I'll take my chances with the cops rather then my conscience after hearing a family was crushed to death by a rock I was prompted to move."

Emphasis placed on PROMPTED. This is classic Sunday school, holy ghost, still small voice, Mormon entitlement. Good luck finding enough people in that state to give him more than a small fine.

I have another question though. I've established new routes. In the process I've trundled rocks nearly the size of that one. They were no "younger" than the one toppled. Am I an equal vandal? Am I worse? These guys left footprints. I left bolts.

dmb wrote:good ole bandwagon overreaction. there is no reason to disbelieve their intentions (other than prejudice against rednecks). they were repentant, get over it. plenty of other cool rocks out there.

One need not be prejudiced against rednecks to note that their supposed safety concern is not at all evident in the video.

nicelegs wrote: I have another question though. I've established new routes. In the process I've trundled rocks nearly the size of that one. They were no "younger" than the one toppled. Am I an equal vandal? Am I worse? These guys left footprints. I left bolts.

Good perspective there. The difference is, the rock in the video is popular - people like it. People either 1) don't care about the rocks you trundle because they don't know they exist or 2) are glad you trundled them because they don't want to be hit by them when they climb.
Rocks "requiring" trundling are no less valuable or monumental, and no more dangerous. They are only dangerous if people opt to participate in the contrived activity of rock climbing.
So, if the actions in the video bother you (as they bother me), but you don't see a problem with sometimes trundling some rocks on a route (as I don't) you must think you shouldn't do things that are going to make people mad or sad. I guess that makes us a bunch of people-pleasers.

Or, you could take the view that the natural world is valuable, but not as valuable as human life, and when it comes time to sacrifice the former for the latter we should entrust that responsibility to people who know what they are doing (mainly select Federal Employees and experienced rock climbers).

Hmm.

In a Salt Lake Tribune article they make the following statements:Article

"The rock pusher, Taylor, wrote that they were just doing our civic duty!"
"One gust of wind and that rock was falling whether someone was there or not. ..."
"The intent was to enjoy the natural resources with a bunch of friends,"
"The Facebook video received a barrage of praise from the men’s friends."


I have to agree with the original poster's title "ignorance". Any visitor to our State and National Parks should REPORT a dangerous area, but not act on it. If for example this scout leader had the rock formation shift and fall in his direction rather than away from him, I am sure that the family would have been seeking to sue the Utah DNR for negligence.

It will be interesting to see what kind of actions the Utah DNR, Emory County Sheriff's office, The L.D.S. church, and the Boy Scouts will take in regards to this incident. Concerned citizens should contact the Utah Division of Natural Resources and encourage them to prosecute these individuals.

Sarah Siefken, Park Manager
Nathan Martinez, Assistant Manager
PO Box 637
84525 Green River
Phone:
435-275-4584

Contact Deputy Emery County Attorney Brent Langston and press him to file charges if he has not already.
Phone:(435) 381-2543
Fax:(435) 381-2735
Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 249
Castle Dale, UT 84513
Physical Address:
1850 North 550 West (Des Bee Dove Rd)
Castle Dale, UT 84513

Use the following link
Boy Scouts
to find out who is the regional director for their area. Contact them, and urge them to make the scout leaders accountable for their actions.

nicelegs wrote:I've established new routes. In the process I've trundled rocks nearly the size of that one. They were no "younger" than the one toppled. Am I an equal vandal? Am I worse? These guys left footprints. I left bolts.

So size does matter. Your comparison is as lame as they come. Feel free to never cross the border and climb at the creek.

dmb wrote:good ole bandwagon overreaction. there is no reason to disbelieve their intentions (other than prejudice against rednecks). they were repentant, get over it. plenty of other cool rocks out there.

"I'd do it again" is NOT repentant.

Assholes, all three of them.

rging wrote: So size does matter. Your comparison is as lame as they come. Feel free to never cross the border and climb at the creek.

I've climbed more at the creek than you. What are you even talking about? I'm asking a question, not defending anyone.

I want people to think. You just want to be an asshole.

Read, and in your case, maybe reread, then think, then ask your mom what some of those words mean, then after that, you can post.

nicelegs wrote:I have another question though. I've established new routes. In the process I've trundled rocks nearly the size of that one. They were no "younger" than the one toppled. Am I an equal vandal? Am I worse? These guys left footprints. I left bolts.

Ethnocentrism.
It all depends on your perspective.

This story linked from a gun-lover's forum and the responses would be 180*

NPS Ranger wrote:Any visitor to our State and National Parks should REPORT a dangerous area, but not act on it. If for example this scout leader had the rock formation shift and fall in his direction rather than away from him, I am sure that the family would have been seeking to sue the Utah DNR for negligence.

Natural acts are indemnified by state statue so they could have sued they would get nothing.

NPS Ranger wrote:In a Salt Lake Tribune article they make the following statements:Article "The rock pusher, Taylor, wrote that they were just doing our civic duty!" "One gust of wind and that rock was falling whether someone was there or not. ..." "The intent was to enjoy the natural resources with a bunch of friends," "The Facebook video received a barrage of praise from the men’s friends." I have to agree with the original poster's title "ignorance". Any visitor to our State and National Parks should REPORT a dangerous area, but not act on it. If for example this scout leader had the rock formation shift and fall in his direction rather than away from him, I am sure that the family would have been seeking to sue the Utah DNR for negligence. It will be interesting to see what kind of actions the Utah DNR, Emory County Sheriff's office, The L.D.S. church, and the Boy Scouts will take in regards to this incident. Concerned citizens should contact the Utah Division of Natural Resources and encourage them to prosecute these individuals. Sarah Siefken, Park Manager Nathan Martinez, Assistant Manager PO Box 637 84525 Green River Phone: 435-275-4584 Contact Deputy Emery County Attorney Brent Langston and press him to file charges if he has not already. Phone:(435) 381-2543 Fax:(435) 381-2735 Mailing Address: P.O. Box 249 Castle Dale, UT 84513 Physical Address: 1850 North 550 West (Des Bee Dove Rd) Castle Dale, UT 84513 Use the following link Boy Scouts to find out who is the regional director for their area. Contact them, and urge them to make the scout leaders accountable for their actions.

I strongly urge everyone that is appalled by this story to contact these people. It will be more difficult for them to drop charges and/or punishments when the community weighs in strongly.

Some of you are downplaying this incident, but what if each day one person knocked over one feature? This applies to caves, mountains, reefs, canyons, anything, without protection, everything would get destroyed over time.

dmb wrote: they were in the other article i read deseretnews.com/article/865… Taylor and Hall maintain their actions weren't malicious, and at the time they never considered what they were doing could be criminal. "Neither one of us were out there intending to do illegal activity," Hall said. "It just made sense to us at the time — remove the danger so that we don't have to hear about somebody dying." Hall believes had they sought help from park rangers, they would have agreed the rock was in a dangerous position. Taylor said he's "incredibly sorry for the destruction of any natural resource" and that the pair never considered themselves "vandals." "If we were defacing property, if we had been going around knocking over all kinds of rocks, I would feel really guilty," Taylor said. "As it is, I feel guilty because I have a conscience. But my conscience also says I did the right thing."

How do you figure that "conscience also says I did the right thing" is a statement of repentance? It is, in fact, the exact of opposite of being repentant.

Ditto for "Neither one of us were out there intending to do illegal activity" and "It just made sense to us at the time — remove the danger so that we don't have to hear about somebody dying." Those are excuses, not repentances.

One can look at Utah history and see that it is not unusual for boy scout leaders to take bone-headed actions that reflect very little understanding of nature.

I remember one incident in the Kolob part of Zions in the late 80's that resulted in a couple or three death's. At the time, I read an account in the press where the surviving leaders came up with the notion that it was "character building" for the survivors and gave no acknowledgment of the fact that what they did was outright stupid.

In this case, being worried about the wind toppling this onto a family, is really a stretch and calls into question the sanity of those who would let them "lead" their children. Better they all stay home, drink cokes and watch football.

I thought it was funny, what's more rediculous then the trundle is all the first world problem police on mountain project..