What R UR Recovery Foods???

Recently, feeling like I need to recover faster. Read a study-infused article awhile back which claimed the best food/drink to eat post climbing is a carb/protein ratio of 4:1 within 45 min of ending a workout. Interesting... Secondly, could this ratio change for other sports like running as it could be argued they aren't as isometric? Also, wondering if running is wearing me down a bit?

Anyways, I'm mainly wondering what ya'll eat/drink before-during-and especially after climbing?

Can't beat chocolate milk IMO for a great after-climbing recovery drink. 4:1 carbs-protein ratio and tasty! I add a scoop of protein powder into my chocolate milk, shake it in a thermos and keep it in my pack ready to drink as soon as I'm done climbing for the day.

During strenuous activity your body uses stored glycogen in your muscle for ATP production. Before activity I eat complex carbs, during and after activity I'll consume simple carbs to replenish those glycogen stores. I also watch the acidity of the food I eat. The one supplement I swear on is an omega-3 fish oil. Fatty acids are like the recycle/repair crew for damaged tissue. And lots of water and a foam roller. :)

That 1 protein to 4 carb thing has been touted since at least the late 90's. I can't tell you if it works but Cytomax started it with their branch chain amino acids and everyone but the grocery store brands does it now.

When talking recovery, it's important to really think about what you want to recover. If it's your legs and whole body after an exhausting alpine day or wall, yes, there is a drink or protocol for that. Pretty much the same thing a cyclist would do, good hydration, high calorie balanced meals, rest, stretching, ibuprofin (or ice is better, I just hate getting cold), and maybe glutamine (that last bit is up for debate).

When we're talking about recovering from climbing specifically, we're talking about tired forearms, tweaky feeling fingers, maybe a sore shoulder, and maybe a sore ab muscle. It's just not fatigue to the level of some magic recovery protocol. Continue to eat well, take the ibuprofin if you need it, stretch, and don't climb the next day if you're still hurting. There isn't much more you can do.

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If I recall correctly, there was a scientific study a year or so ago where they evaluated all the best post workout drinks and to everyone's surprise, chocolate milk was THE best recovery drink. I'll see if I can find it. . . had to do with the ratios.

I don't exactly have a preferance to my pre-climbing food/drinks...but i make sure i never climb on an empty stomach. 1-2 good size fruits right after i'm done with a hard session...then when I get home carbs/protein and 1/2 multi-vitamin. Make sure you get 8+ hrs of sleep too.

Either Ranger IPA or 395 - the study's still out on which one outperforms, so for now, have both to cover all bases.

JLP wrote: It's junk food made for obese 12 yr olds.

LOL...that's funny!!

^^^ it's not funny. A lot of "wholesome" dairy products in this country are full of fillers and corn syrup ans starch. It's gross.

chocolate milk is choss at best, even organic.

Pre workout and during you want low glycemic foods. Any workout over 2hrs requires protein replacement, if whey upsets your stomach search out plant based protein.

Post workout you want a small insulin spike to drive the protein synthesis, and glycogen depletion. Ratio’s are arguable, too many variables to make general statements like 4:1 is the best.

Here's a link on ratio's.

hammernutrition.com/knowled…

nicelegs wrote:That 1 protein to 4 carb thing has been touted since at least the late 90's. I can't tell you if it works but Cytomax started it

Actually, Dr. Edmund Burke "started it" with his research, book, and Carmichael was an early adopter in training his athletes (Lance Armstrong among others).

Research since then has found different things as far as optimum pro:carb ratios and timing. There is insufficient evidence for any specific ratio to claim as "best" at this point. Burke's evidence showed 4:1, others have shown as little as 2:1.

Whey protein (which tend to be rich in BCAAs) based shakes prior to the workout have shown very promising results. There are many, many studies out there comparing things like pre vs during vs post workout, varying ratios, etc.

The best thing IMO, is to study the research and understand the principles and mechanisms behind what is occuring.

Personally, I have a ~25g of protein whey shake on my way to the gym, then starting halfway through my cool down have about 8-12oz of juice (typically grape or cherry diltued a bit with plain water to make 16-20oz total, if you use creatine and/or beta-alanine, this is the place to add it), followed by another whey shake on the way home, then eat a regular small dinner about an hour or so later. Why do I do this? Because I've read dozens of studies on the topic and that was my overall takeaway. YMMV.

Some folks can tolerate whey (which is derived from dairy) but not milk or cassein. Chocolate milk is cheap and tastes pretty good, but even if you can tolerate the lactose, you're not going to get a superior BCAA profile out of it.

JLP wrote: It's junk food made for obese 12 yr olds.

Well ya if you buy that type of chocolate milk that's what you get but, real milk and real chocolate is def different...

Joel Stager, director of the Human Performance laboratory at Indiana University, published a scientific study in the International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism. Detailing how Chocolate milk was best post work from a variety of common post work drinks. The other facny expensive crap you guys are listing i have no experience with but I'm sure the placebo effect helps us all, esp if you spend more money for it.

"Low-fat milk has been shown to be as effective, if not more effective, than commercially available sports drinks as a rehydration beverage. Milk represents a more nutrient dense beverage choice for individuals who partake in strength and endurance activities, compared to traditional sports drinks. "

Just so JPL doesn't make it seem like I was talking out my ars...

Sheldon Deeny wrote: If you are looking for a single post-workout recovery mix, check out "Ultragen" by First Endurance. firstendurance.com/nutritio… Their website has some research you can check out about recovery nutrition (slanted towards making you buy their product, of course!) I used it during my competitive road cycling days to recover from hard training rides and after almost every race. I think it was the best stuff I ever tried, and I tried almost everything: Endurox, CytoMax, Muscle Milk, Power Bar recovery, GU mix... The downside about Ultragen is it's prohibitively expensive.

Sheldon, have you used Recovery Brew by GU? How does Ultragen compare? I see the amino acid range is more expansive in Ultragen, but what's your real life experience? I use GU stuff when I put in long alpine days, it seems to work. Ultragen pricing seems comparable to GU stuff, I know - expensive. That's why I only use it when my schedule is condensed and I can't afford too many rest days. Which flavor Ultragen do you recommend? TIA!

Here's a link to a good article on nutrient timing. ISSN Position Stand on Nutrient Timing

Will S wrote: Whey protein (which tend to be rich in BCAAs) based shakes prior to the workout have shown very promising results. There are many, many studies out there comparing things like pre vs during vs post workout, varying ratios, etc. The best thing IMO, is to study the research and understand the principles and mechanisms behind what is occuring.

Do these studies compare whey protein against other forms of proteins? It's great when studies conclude whey protein is better than no protein, or more steak is better than less steak. But it doesn't tell you one form is better than another. Then there is the activity type. I feel way different after doing Half Dome+taking the long walk back than spending a weekend in Rifle. Regardless, I find it odd to take processed shakes for recovery. Seems like this would be the best time to eat solid food.

doligo wrote:^^^ it's not funny. A lot of "wholesome" dairy products in this country are full of fillers and corn syrup ans starch. It's gross.

No shit...there will always be companies out there putting garbage in their products and praying on un-educated people. People have to educate themselves.

SO like i said...pretty funny referance!

preworkout -1-2 hours before a shake made of:
1 tablespoon honey
1 banana
3 egg yolks (save the egg whites for a meal later)
1 scoop milk protein isolate (no additives or preservatives or artificial flavoring)
1 teaspoon sea salt
1 tablespoon coconut oil
8oz water

+10 minutes preworkout:
5 grams BCAAs
1 tablespoon honey

+0 minutes postworkout:
same shake as above

+1-2 hours postworkout:
meal with 6 egg whites (see you're using them!)
salad/veggies
rice, gluten-free bread, potatoes, or corn

Works for me so I can train everyday.

JLP wrote:Relying on "research" ie, "marketing literature" from a site trying to sell you something is a joke. The point of all the designer recovery drinks is to hit the ~30 min window after exercise where your muscles can absorb more than they do later after they've cooled down. They're meant to digest quickly. The whole 4:1 thing is all about the same - rapid absorption. They're all liquids. The point after that is to get out the very next day and do more - ie, you're training for a big running or bike race - lots of endurance, lots of volume. These are highly aerobic activities where you can't digest protein while doing them - you'll shit your pants. That's what all these products are for - not climbing. Protein during climbing is very unlikely to mess up your send efforts, so you should be eating something with protein all day long. Therefore, the need for these products isn't as high. Ultragen vs Cytomax vs Endurox vs GU - the ingredients are all basically the same, although sometimes with different BS marketing names for the same thing. Buy whatever doesn't taste like shit to you and is on sale. If for some reason one makes you feel better than the other, definitely go with that. For climbing, I'd suggest whatever real foods are in your normal diet, then adapt some subset of that for the crags. Done. If you are working really hard, I think the various "during" and "after" drinks have value in being highly digestible to help maintain energy levels, but definitely not at the full doses recommended on the jar. Climbing just isn't aerobic enough to justify such a massive sugar intake. The "after/recovery" ones generally have that protein, so are probably the better choice. After you finish your chosen potion, eat some real food.

I thought the point of the thread was what food to eat when you're training at the gym or at home...not "what to eat for an all day cragging"...but maybe I am the mistaken one.

Just eat whole foods, mostly plants.

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