The 5 Biggest Safety-Related Myths in Rock Climbing

I'm curious about the opposed 'biner issue with draws.

I'm aware that biners should be oriented so that the spine is in the direction of travel (as is shown in the picture) to prevent the rope from unclipping itself.

And, I'm familiar with the potential for a biner to rotate against the bolt and unclip itself. As I understood it, it's related to the orientation of the biner against the bolt and the direction of travel.

But, I've never heard that opposing the direction of biners on a draw create more potential for this. How does that work?

Crag Dweller wrote:I'm curious about the opposed 'biner issue with draws. I'm aware that biners should be oriented so that the spine is in the direction of travel (as is shown in the picture) to prevent the rope from unclipping itself. And, I'm familiar with the potential for a biner to rotate against the bolt and unclip itself. As I understood it, it's related to the orientation of the biner against the bolt and the direction of travel. But, I've never heard that opposing the direction of biners on a draw create more potential for this. How does that work?

It allows the hanger to snag on the carabiner near the gate, kinda hard to explain but go see for yourself. Just happened in the RRG two weeks ago and I have heard of it happening numerous other times yet people INSIST on hanging their draws that way. The funny thing is its usually experienced people who do it.

BSheriden wrote: It allows the hanger to snag on the carabiner near the gate, kinda hard to explain but go see for yourself. Just happened in the RRG two weeks ago and I have heard of it happening numerous other times yet people INSIST on hanging their draws that way. The funny thing is its usually experienced people who do it.

I've seen it happen...when someone demonstrated the rotation that causes it to me. But, I don't get how the opposed orientation of 'biners does this. What matters is how the biner clipped to the bolt is aligned to the hanger and the direction of travel. The rope-end biner's orientation doesn't matter.

That is, unless people bolting routes are putting that much thought into things and hangers are oriented to the climbing line such that bolt-clipped biner should be facing the same direction as the rope-clipped biner. If developers have been putting that much attention in to things, I have to apologize because I've totally overlooked it.

But, then again, I don't oppose the directions of my draw biners. And, I'm more worried about orienting the spine of the rope-clipped biner to the direction of travel. So, maybe I just haven't been paying that much attention to the rotation of the hanger.

Typically, you orient the hanger so the downward force is in line with the inside spine of the hanger. Good route developers check how the draw hangs before drilling, but I haven't heard of checking opposing vs non-opposing set-ups.

Boring....I have another one for you:
Myth: bouldering will make you a stronger climber.
Bust: no it wount. Climbing will make you a stronger climber!

Good article!
I would recommend the bowling follow through as the go to knot apart from t he traditional 8.

Also, the fifth myth is erroneous and hilarious. Rope side gate/spine orientation is totally different than bolt side orientation. As an aside, there is a right and wrong way to back clip. If the climbing direction is towards the spine, backclipping doesn't really matter.
I have personally seen draws come unclipped from the hanger because the gate was opened by the nut AND the spine broken and the climber deck from the spine hitting the nut.
What are climbers do/think!?!

Hey Abram,

The only error I noticed is the Yosemite finish. The finish you show can make the figure 8 knot more prone to "rolling" and coming untied. Check out the discussion on the AAI site ( alpineinstitute.blogspot.co…).

The safer version goes around the the rope coming out of the knot (the line going to your belayer) before tucking through the knot itself. It's shown clearly in the AAI post.

RC

crackhead wrote:Boring....I have another one for you: Myth: bouldering will make you a stronger climber. Bust: no it wount. Climbing will make you a stronger climber!

This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous. And, uh, a lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head. Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber.

I hope you paid extra for the warranty on that new phone because it spells as poorly as the old one did.

Old Dude, this thread is boring so is the article...unless you are a total noob or 12 years of age. My favorite is the one about dorky helmets. He probably could only come up with 4 but 5 sounds like a more rounded number.

my phone is better. It takes better pictures too.

Abram Herman wrote:I just wrote up a blog post, and I'd love to get some feedback: The 5 Biggest Safety-Related Myths in Rock Climbing

Good job. Everything appeared spot-on (although I did not read every sentence). Thanks. Now maybe we should create a Mythbusters of rock climbing.

I suggest you read the last couple of decades of Accidents in North American Mountaineering. There are a few examples of bowlines coming untied. It probably is worse if you do not snug down the knot. Statistically it is a less safe knot than the figure 8. If that risk matters to a particular climber is the question. Personally I don't think it is a big deal.

As others have noted the energy absorbation of a un-snugged knot is minimal and if the knot fails you will be listed in Accidents in North American Mountaineering as improperly tieing into the rope.

Would the bowline really be less safe if a greater number of climbers were using it? There are also examples of people trying to doing an 8 and screwing it up. The statistical thing I'm drawing from comparing accidents involving "knots" being that people aren't tying knots properly.

Buff Johnson wrote:people aren't tying knots properly.

+1

Buff Johnson wrote:Would the bowline really be less safe if a greater number of climbers were using it? There are also examples of people trying to doing an 8 and screwing it up. The statistical thing I'm drawing from comparing accidents involving "knots" being that people aren't tying knots properly.

Yeah but if you see him tie a bowline, WHOA, watch out cause he really knows his stuff!

Personally, I wouldn't recommend tying knots loosely. I've seen knots come untied, particularly when the rope is a stiff one.

Crag Dweller wrote:I'm curious about the opposed 'biner issue with draws. I'm aware that biners should be oriented so that the spine is in the direction of travel (as is shown in the picture) to prevent the rope from unclipping itself. And, I'm familiar with the potential for a biner to rotate against the bolt and unclip itself. As I understood it, it's related to the orientation of the biner against the bolt and the direction of travel. But, I've never heard that opposing the direction of biners on a draw create more potential for this. How does that work?

This link helps describe the issue: spadout.com/a/face-those-ga…
(This is actually linked in Abram Herman's blog post as well)

I find it somewhat ironic that you stress how crucial it is that gates face the same direction on draws, yet the draws you use to illustrate this have standard notched wire-gates on the bolt side.

From what I've seen many (if not most) quickdraw failures seem to be caused by nose-hooked biners. It doesn't take much to break a nose-hooked biner, and it doesn't take much to get a notched wire-gate nose-hooked on a hanger. If a notch-less or hooded biner is used on the bolt end of the draw, the chances for the biner getting hung up are drastically reduced. I'd much rather have a keylock biner facing the 'wrong' way than a notched wire-gate facing the 'right' way, any day.

For the record, the CAMP Orbit Wire Express quickdraws, as seen in the blog, have been retired by a number of my friends due to how commonly they got hung up on the hangers (with one actually leading to a broken biner and ground fall). If those are the draws you're using, I'm not really surprised that you've "seen it happen twice".

I had no idea that carabiners on quicks needed to face the same direction..I was aware of clipping properly to avoid loading the gate in the case of a fall, but had never heard of a draw "bumping" loose from a bolt! Holy Cow! Thanks for the info! I'll be making sure as soon as I get off work!

Ian Stewart wrote:I find it somewhat ironic that you stress how crucial it is that gates face the same direction on draws, yet the draws you use to illustrate this have standard notched wire-gates on the bolt side. From what I've seen many (if not most) quickdraw failures seem to be caused by nose-hooked biners. It doesn't take much to break a nose-hooked biner, and it doesn't take much to get a notched wire-gate nose-hooked on a hanger. If a notch-less or hooded biner is used on the bolt end of the draw, the chances for the biner getting hung up are drastically reduced. I'd much rather have a keylock biner facing the 'wrong' way than a notched wire-gate facing the 'right' way, any day. For the record, the CAMP Orbit Wire Express quickdraws, as seen in the blog, have been retired by a number of my friends due to how commonly they got hung up on the hangers (with one actually leading to a broken biner and ground fall). If those are the draws you're using, I'm not really surprised that you've "seen it happen twice".

I have heard of that rumored problem with these particular draw, but I've never had any problem with them at all in my use. The times I've seen it happen were on my old draws, which were just the plain old Black Diamond packs of basic draws.

Vaughne wrote: This link helps describe the issue: spadout.com/a/face-those-ga… (This is actually linked in Abram Herman's blog post as well)

Ah, I see. I missed the link the first time. This sentence from that link explains it well and simply:

"...the rope tension drives the top biner into its basket. With the top biner facing away from the climber, the basket digs into the hanger rather than the hanger sliding/rocking toward the gate. "