Another speed buckle catastrophic failure

Gunkiemike wrote: it's inconceivable that one part would be pulled out so far in any direction to come undone

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Ha, sorry couldn't help myself. But seriously, folks. Scary stuff.

Gunkiemike wrote: it's inconceivable that one part would be pulled out so far in any direction to come undone

i think its pretty conceivable on a tyrol for the load to not be directed towards the leg loops. if the waist belt started slipping, his upper body would rotate downwards, which would keep pushing on the waist band until it stopped slipping, or in this case came undone.

Quick simple solution to solve this problem that doesn't cost anything and backs up the apparently most common failure mode of autolocking buckles, something getting hung up on the buckle and pulls it open. Tie an overhand knot in the webbing behind the buckle.

bkb0000 wrote: OP- glad you're OK.. you should contact metolius- my guess is they'll not only want it back, but probably give you a replacement.

Clay Zamperini wrote: He's right, send it back to Petzl.

Ya, I bet Arc'Teryx will send you a new one!

This thread is full of awesome.

Eric Dunlap wrote: When I first read the other thread regarding the BD harness failure, I thought "bullshit, this guy is a gumby who screwed up putting on his harness."

Hmmm?

jmeizis wrote:Quick simple solution to solve this problem that doesn't cost anything and backs up the apparently most common failure mode of autolocking buckles, something getting hung up on the buckle and pulls it open. Tie an overhand knot in the webbing behind the buckle.

I guess this is a useful tip for those who have a speed-buckle harness already and don't want to replace it immediately.

But in general, wouldn't you just be better off buying a harness with traditional style buckles?

The pics I'm seeing of these failing harnesses don't have any "fold over" at the end of the webbing

On my Petzls with speed buckles, the last inch of the waist webbing is folded back onto itself and stitched. So it's still as easy to get in and out of, but the tail of the webbing itself would make it difficult for the entire thing to slip through.

The BD pics posted look like the tail end of the webbing is just single thickness. Either way, never had any issue with the Petzl design and that includes tons of squeeze chimneys where I could easily see the buckle getting pryed on.

When I first read the other thread regarding the BD harness failure, I thought "bullshit, this guy is a gumby who screwed up putting on his harness." I've had a Mammut speed buckle harness for four years. I've taken ~50 lead falls onto it, including several 20-30+ footers. I"ve caught large falls wearing this harness. I've rapped tens of thousands of feet and sat through countless hanging belays. The buckle never even so much as slipped a fraction of an inch. Until today....

When I went to cross they tyrol on the way home, my harness COMPLETELY failed....

I am promptly retiring this harness and buying a new one with traditional buckles. This has been a public service announcement, take it or leave it.

Thanks, I'm not a gumby. I don't think gumbys are capable of working in an ICU department and being responsible for critical ill patients near death :)

But back to the topic...I also weighted, previously climbed on the harness, rappelled, lowered my partner, and still experienced that failure, so I KNOW exactly what you experienced...disbelief...Thank you for your public service announcement, which was also my approach on posting here. But you read the thread, didn't turned out to what I expected. Good luck to you with dealing with all the disbelief and shitty comments.

Em Cos wrote:I was there, it was terrifying. I don't know about anyone else, but for me personally, the fact that we can't duplicate the failure is the opposite of comforting. If you don't know for certain exactly what happened, how can you be sure it wouldn't happen again?

A lot of people here won't believe a situation/story if it can't be repeated twice or duplicated. If they didn't see it or can't imagine it can't exist in their own eyes. I believe the term is "doubting Thomas". Believe me, I also doubted that my harness would fail, but hey it did. I've doubted so many things in my life, from practically dead patients I've had and them making full recovery next time I come to work, to the situations we both experienced. There are miracles and freak accidents out there. Who remembers that thread with the carabiner piercing the guys arm? SHIT HAPPENS people, believe it or not. We are not here to start BS topics or to shit on any company. We both posted for public awareness and to inform everyone of our situation. If you don't believe us, that's fine, but for those of you that do, I'm glad you made or will make different decisions or changes for your own safety.

j

RNclimber wrote:Thanks, I'm not a gumby. I don't think gumbys are capable of working in an ICU department and being responsible for critical ill patients near death :)

I'm not saying that you are a gumby or that you didn't have a speed buckle failure, but I really don't see how working in an ICU has any relevence whatsoever on being a gumby when it comes to climbing.

As far as these failures go, Thanks for sharing your experience RNclimber and Eric, I climb on a harness with speed buckles (it's my second speed buckle harness, not because I had any preferences as far as buckles go, but I liked the other features) and I will certainly be paying more attention to the buckle.

kennoyce wrote: I'm not saying that you are a gumby or that you didn't have a speed buckle failure, but I really don't see how working in an ICU has any relevence whatsoever on being a gumby when it comes to climbing.

+1

And I'm going to throw out my own hypothesis here and guess that some accidental action by Eric and RN pulled on the speed buckle tab in such a way that loosened it while they were weighting the tyrolean, and catching the fall, respectively. I don't believe that the speed buckles spontaneously came undone, but that the design may allow for accidental release, which is nearly as bad.

RNclimber wrote: Thanks, I'm not a gumby. I don't think gumbys are capable of working in an ICU department and being responsible for critical ill patients near death :)

I'm good at my job, therefore I must be good at climbing = gumby reasoning.

RNclimber wrote:Thanks, I'm not a gumby. I don't think gumbys are capable of working in an ICU department and being responsible for critical(ly) ill patients near death :)

Holy fucking spraylord! What kind of a pack do you use to carry your rack and attitude to the crag?

RNclimber wrote: ... Who remembers that thread with the carabiner piercing the guys arm?...

Which begs the question that it couldn't be repeated.

And with respect to your harness issue - if you're willing to accept that a miracle is more likely than user error, then your critical-thinking skills are not as finely honed as you think.

There are three rational explanations: your harness was threaded incorrectly (easily reproduced); you snagged the buckles and released them (easily reproduced as you showed us in your video); or you've been fucking with us all along and nothing ever happened (I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this).

One solution y'all may not have considered: You don't have to worry about your speed buckle coming undone if your harness isn't attached to anything.

vimeo.com/7858740

Sorry. Lame excuse to resurrect that video, but damn, that cracks me up, and this conversation needs some levity.

-sp wrote: or you've been fucking with us all along and nothing ever happened

I'm pretty sure you're onto something here...

RNclimber wrote:Thanks, I'm not a gumby. I don't think gumbys are capable of working in an ICU department and being responsible for critical ill patients near death :)

Hahahahaha, man I can't get over this. Might be the best comment ever. Trust me, there are gumbys in the ICU.

Where would we get one of those extra buckles? Hardware store?