Money and climbing and how do you do it

So along the lines of my other post about being slightly confused and fustrated I got to thinking. Being blessed with having a good job, a roof over my head and a mostly supportive wife, I still feel that coming up with money for various climbing trips can be rather hard.

I know that I make decent money and have bills to pay like most people but how are some of you who are not working but climbing full time afford to go on trips and travel etc. I find it hard enough to pay my mortage etc and have money left over, then hear about some dirtbag climber going on a international trip and wonder what the hell how is it possible.

Is it as simple as paying the bills but cutting down on unneeded things or are these people just in crazy debt and dont care.

Dirtbags don't have mortgages or electric bills or cable. Lotsa savings right there.

Saving money is all about priorities. We have friends with $200/mo yoga bills and expensive purses and then say they don't have money. Look at your budget with a fine tooth comb, find where there is some extra money and save it. Eventually you'll have enough for a trip. Go on that awesome trip, repeat process and be happy.

Well, a friend of mine does that, but doesn't have a house, a wife, or really much in the ways of belongings. He works seasonal jobs, drives used cars, rents a place wherever he wants to be, and seems to have money to burn (though in reality, he's really frugal so that he can have that $ when he wants it).

I added Yoga to my list of activities as I feel it helps my 51 year old body recover from 3 days of climbing a week. Decided I needed to cut out my $2.13 a weekday Starbucks habit. 2X5X52=$520 a year. $9/week yoga bill.

No kids, low mortgage, high health care deductible, some savings due to high paying contract work years ago. Live near a lot of easy access climbing with good weather and mostly climb around here. "Move to where your hobby is or get another hobby." Buddy of mine told me that when I started getting into sailboarding while living here in Tucson AZ.

Now, if I stopped putting up routes $50/ route average X 100/year divided by 2 since my buddy and I split it. Yikes, I need a second job!

Well - a couple of ways. There's the pro or semi-pro climber that's whole life is dedicated to climbing. Their income is derived from climbing. It's not some MASSIVE pay check for the most part so they live a fairly frugal life and climb a whole lot. You don't see a lot of traveling pro climbers with non-climbing wives and kids. There's a reason for that.

Then there are the non pros who live some sort of "dirt bag" lifestyle. Here, they've made major lifestyle choices to allow them to climb as much as possible. Season employment, pay check to pay check, little in the way of extraneous spending (no HDTVs, yoga bills etc etc). Again, not a lot (if any) of married with kids and a mortgage types doing this!

The rest of us: Here you'll find the rest of us. Climbing is a part of our life but it ebbs and flows with all of life's changes and your priorities. We have jobs and car payments and wives and kids etc etc etc. Within that realm, everyone makes decisions on what's important TO THEM. Is a week long climbing trip what you want or a nice TV? Is that week of vacation for a family vacation instead? You get the drift.

For me, family and my wife are tops. I know my road trips in this stage of my life will be few and far between so my $$ goes to other things or getting nice shinny gear I can fondle.

My only tip: The call of "The Climbing Life" is strong. You seem to have that "Freshly Bitten" vibe going on. Good for you. Just temper that with a bit of reason. Climbing has always had that "call of the road" romanticism with it. That said, many who have sacrificed much (family, financial stability etc) to follow that call find later in life that climbing wasn't worth all those sacrifices.

I sugest you first, talk with your wife about your thoughts on a "climbing trip". You obviously want to do one so discuss it with her. Does she climb at all? IF she does even a little, there are MANY MANY options out there for a great trip that both you and your wife can enjoy. Both here and abroad. You're not gonna dirt bag in IC but maybe hit Euro Limestone with some nice relaxing days as well. Vegas with some spa days for her you get the idea. If she doesn't climb then come up with other options.

If at the end of the day, budgets and life constraints right now don't get you out on your epic road trip, no big deal. The rocks will be there later on. Savor a 3 day weekend trip somewhere instead. Some of my BEST trips were the short but sweet variety.

Seems pretty obvious doesn't it?

No mortgage. No rent. No child. No wife. Often, no car. No water, electric, cable, homeowners insurance, health insurance bills, no work wardrobe. Rarely eating restaurant meals. Go somewhere with free camping and good weather, stay there until it's not good anymore or you find someone to split gas to the next good place.

I've done the no-job full time climbing thing several times for about 18mo at a stretch usually, and once I went about 3k in debt, the other 3 times I'd saved enough while working to live comfortably (renting a place in winter, car, traveling during summer, drinking large quantities of good beer). $6k/yr and you can live in luxury.

When I was a climbing bum, I did it like this.
Work a week to live a month, or work two weeks to go two months.
I would live on a high protein mixture I called the goulosh, tuna, and bananas.
Had enough money for rent,cams,gas, shoes, and beer and food.
Like Chris said, "Priorities".
You have to separate what you want and what you need. Two very different things.
Please post a picture of your wifes face when you tell her to cut back so you can have more climbing outings.

Ha a picture of my wifes face would be funny. Even though my wife doesnt climb she is probably one of the most supportive non climbers I could imagine.

You can do a lot of international trips pretty cheaply too. I've climbed a lot in South America, Africa, and Russia and never spent more than 2-3K on a trip. It can actually be a lot cheaper to go climbing in South America than a USA road trip if you get a good deal on the airfare.

The international trips you speak of aren't exactly 4 star either. 2-3k for even a long trip in south america is a little on the luxury side. $500-$800 to fly down there and $10-$30 a day for food and lodging, with a few extra expenses to get to the goods and such.

OK...this is a wierd one. The key is to create a money flow from outside endeavors that doesn't tie you down all the time. This takes risk and a determination that a lot of climbers don't have outside of climbing. I have a very supporting NON-climbing wife and 3 daughters 2,5,and 8. I am in construction so I moved to a prime location for business and climbing. Although it takes about 3-5 years to build thats not much in the grand scheme. Turn you money into delagation, create a cycle which continues the money flow WITHOUT YOU IN IT. Then go climb as much as you want and have the money to do it. I'm not sayin I've traveled all over internationally to climb my whole life. But I'm 36, going to South America when I get better from my injury, and am now in a position to travel and climb the rest of my life, while still taking care of my family. It ain't easy but its totally possible. Just like climbing RISK=REWARD......Good Luck!!!!

drpw wrote: 2-3k for even a long trip in south america is a little on the luxury side. $500-$800 to fly down there

Where are you getting these flights? I've done extensive research for my upcoming trip to Chile. Every trip report I've read since 2005 says it costs about $1200 to Santiago and flight quote that I've gotten is about $1350. Where in South America are you going?

We are looking at about $2,500-$3,000 per person for a team of 3 to South America for 3 weeks...not bad

Stephen Berwanger wrote: Where are you getting these flights? I've done extensive research for my upcoming trip to Chile. Every trip report I've read since 2005 says it costs about $1200 to Santiago and flight quote that I've gotten is about $1350. Where in South America are you going? We are looking at about $2,500-$3,000 per person for a team of 3 to South America for 3 weeks...not bad

I just did LAX to Santiago direct for $1200. I found budget flights for around $1000, but I didn't look into details. I seriously doubt you're going to find a roundtrip flight to SA for $500 without blowing the pilot. Even then, I've only been able to knock off about $70 and a free pack a peanuts.

Why fly to Santiago? Rookies. Fly to Mendoza, skip the $200+ customs/visa fee and take a 20$ bus ride down the switchbacks to Santiago- if you really want to eat mayonnaise on bananas with ugly, and I mean UGLY women. I've seen flights, round trip, to Bolivia and the Atacama for 450 bucks. No joke. There are bus routes all over sudoamerica! All you need is time and ambition to jump country to country. Speak with people that do that kind of stuff all the time- the types that go yonder and teach english for a few months to travel at will- they know, more than I, how to get the deals, where to find them and perhaps most importantly when to get them! 1300.00 for a flight to Santiago is the result of poor planning and a lack of real searching abilities. When I went, I spent 900.00 on the flight (to Satntiago) and several of my friends went for 750.00! Bastards. That's when I learned I had done it wrong. Oh yeah, and the 200 bucks for a temp visa hit hard too...

Nobody has broached the trustafarian issue yet. Is the issue a little too close to home or am I just mixing my 'bags here?

mattm wrote: That said, many who have sacrificed much (family, financial stability etc) to follow that call find later in life that climbing wasn't worth all those sacrifices.

I'm not going to disagree, but just point out that there are many more posts on MP of people expressing displeasure over their decision to give up the climbing lifestyle for a more conventional one.

SKI wrote:Why fly to Santiago? Rookies. Fly to Mendoza, skip the $200+ customs/visa fee and take a 20$ bus ride down the switchbacks to Santiago-

Looked into it, it costs an EXTRA $350 to Mendoza and you have to go thru Santiago any way. I'm coming from denver so non stop is out of the question. I'll pay $150 less and not have to fly the Santiago/ Mendoza commuter. Take a bus from santiago, 3 blocks from the airport,to anywhere for the same $20. Seems best for me.

SKI, you said"1300.00 for a flight to Santiago is the result of poor planning and a lack of real searching abilities. When I went, I spent 900.00 on the flight (to Satntiago) and several of my friends went for 750.00! Bastards."

PS haven't spent the money just looking at flights in the future. Remember gas is pretty expensive right now. This search was literally 2 days ago on about 6 of the "travel search" sites. When were your flights? You shouldn't accuse me of lack of planning when I'm in the pre-planning stage.

one word

mike526 wrote: mortage

Is this that dude from suburban Chicago?
Aside from the schlong of Florida, Chicago is the most climbing deprived major metro area in the country. Leave, leave now and get somewhere where there is actual climbing. Yeah I know about Devils Lake and so do all the other climbers who live in Chicago/Milwaukee/Madison.

Lets face it... you're married, have kids, mortgage, and you have to provide for those things. That's ok, but if you are going to be serious about getting any climbing in, you are going to have to live in an area where there are crags close by that you can access when you actually have time to. Suburban Chicago ain't it.

Three friends and myself just did a week long trip from Western Carolina to the Red River Gorge for 7 days for $104 per person. That covered gas, food, camping and even pizza one night. We're broke college students, so it's very doable. You just have to be very strict with your budget while you're on a trip. Be very picky about the food you buy too because a lot of money can be saved there. Having multiple people is good too because that spread the expenses out more. Just save a little money every week and eventually you can do it.

Well, this is an interesting topic. I manage money for a living, yes scum sucking guy in a suit I know...i know...But I have been adding an "adventure" bucket to clients financial plans. Cutting out the Starbucks and trimming your yoga are fine and dandy short term techniques, but if there are bigger summits on the horizon you have to plan for them.

1. Look at your retirement savings vs. Goals (i.e do you want more cushion in retirement or do you want those trophy memories with your friends, wife, or kids...money isn't everything)

2. Adjust a short term saftey saving pattern to fund one wickedly epic 12 month goal, 24 month goal, etc...

3.Plan one must do trip a year and one local trip a quarter to satisfy, along with your jaunts out when you can.

4. Sell the crap you aren't using and repeat step 2

5. get rid of luxuries (cable, internet on your phone, etc...), shop for better rates on things like car insurance, and again repeat step 2

6.Take lots of pictures, there are only x amount of paychecks you have left to use for your life and y amount of reasonable adventures left in you anyway...make the most of it!