doing my first project?

Iv never done a project route before. The main reason for this is because my X(belay slave) wouldnt belay be on hard routes after i took a 30 foot wiper when she wasnt anchored to the ground(i weighted 60lbs more than her. -10 for safety).

Currently my Best friend and climbing partner can climb 5.8s and doesnt real like to push himself(i think he doesnt trust the rope yet). but he is coming out. He did his first pink point on a 5.7 a few days before i broke my ankle.

the questions i have are.
1. if i can onside 10As and redpoint 10Bs on second try. what would be a good route to try for my first project.

2. should i wait till my partner is more confident in his climbing abilitys and might be ready to do a project of his own before bringing the project thing up?

iv still got a couple months tell i can climb due to my injury. but iv been training like crazy on the hangboard and weights so i am and will be stronger than ever when i get back on the rock. And im super motivated to really get into some crazy hard routes for my abilitys.

Bryan Jeffrey wrote:Iv never done a project route before. The main reason for this is because my X(belay slave) wouldnt belay be on hard routes after i took a 30 foot wiper when she wasnt anchored to the ground(i weighted 60lbs more than her. -10 for safety).

First off, before you start projecting, learn about the dynamic belay. This is an absolute necessity. I don't know the specifics of your fall, but you probably shouldn't be anchoring your belayer if you're climbing on a steepish sport route.

As for grades, I think one number grade above your onsight level is a pretty good place to start. Then again, depending on your tolerance for failure and you level of doggedness, you could go higher or lower. Above all, make sure to choose an inspiring route, as you'll spend a lot of time on it.

I would not recommend projecting at your level. Spend your time learning how to climb. Get the Self Coached Climber, and do the exercises described, find some better climbers; you don;t have to talk to them, but watch them climb. This may require going to differnt crags or to a gym. Notice what they do differently than you, then start doing that. If you can;t find any good climbers, rent or buy some climbing videos.

Jay Knower wrote: First off, before you start projecting, learn about the dynamic belay. This is an absolute necessity. I don't know the specifics of your fall, but you probably shouldn't be anchoring your belayer if you're climbing on a steepish sport route. As for grades, I think one number grade above your onsight level is a pretty good place to start. Then again, depending on your tolerance for failure and you level of doggedness, you could go higher or lower. Above all, make sure to choose an inspiring route, as you'll spend a lot of time on it.

I totally agree with the dynamic belay. It is a necessity for working route where you are going to fall. Otherwise you half break your back when you hit the end of the rope. Dynamic rope does a good job but your belayer can really ease the forces that you feel during a fall. Evan with a dynamic rope if the belayer locks off and sits in to the fall the stop is hard and fast, and it hurts. I dont anchor my wife when she belays and she is 50lbs less than me. She has a ride up a few feet but she gives a wonderful soft catch.

I would not wait for your climber partner to get more confidant is his climbing ability but in his/her belaying ability. Some people like to climb but dont feel the need to really push them selves to falling; but they can belay just fine. If you partner is up for it get on something hard and take a few whips. after you done jump on a 5.8 for them to climb.

if you are redpointing 10bs than try 5.10 c/d. you might make it in one or two falls or in 10 falls. but I would go 2 above your red point and see how it goes.

Jeff J wrote: I dont anchor my wife when she belays and she is 50lbs less than me. She has a ride up a few feet but she gives a wonderful soft catch.

Same thing for me.

JLP wrote: I would agree with that. Curious what your perspective on what the "right" grade is to begin projecting, and how do you know you are really at that grade? What about "backfilling" to the lower grades? Simple pyramids? This post and Ryan's thread reminds me of the people I've met who have done some 13's, but fall off 11's. I have met several in recent years. I'm thinking a "13 climber" does not fall off 11's - maybe 5-10% for stupid mistakes and wet rock. I'm seeing guys totally confused by basic 11 moves, so they go into their familiar project mode to solve the problem. My take on the matter is there is no shortcut to being a better climber. Projecting harder grades makes you good at projecting harder grades. The exercise does not teach you to quickly onsight the easier ones. Depends on goals, I guess. ie - redpointing 13's won't give you the skills to get up Astroman in 6 hours.

you make a very good point

I agree with Mono and JLP essentially and vote against a super hard project. You could spend a year wiring a 12 and send it most likely but that wouldn't be an efficient use of your time. Instead I would get on things that take a handful of tries but you can actually do the moves. Do that with many different styles/areas if you can. Mileage will make you a better climber right now. Of course i'm not saying don't jump on some routes you think are above your ability in a safe situation, just don't spend a huge amount of time working on one route over and over and over.

JLP wrote: Curious what your perspective on what the "right" grade is to begin projecting, and how do you know you are really at that grade?

Right grade to start projecting? When the routes get hard enough that there aren't ledge rests to crash into all over the place and when you are strong enough to not put yourself in danger by blowing clips.

And also, the situations in which one should anchor a belay are very rare and virtually non-existent in well-developed areas. It is in fact desirable for the belayer to be pulled up on falls.

My two cents are that you should think about moving into projecting routes when you hit your first ceiling. Climbing is great in the beginning because you fly through grades and get better every time you go out. After a while everyone hits a wall where progress slows down dramatically and you feel like "god damn, 5.xx is hard as shit". At that point you might benefit from projecting routes just out of your range or introducing some training into your routine, but until you really hit that wall, you're going to get better faster by just doing as many routes around your onsight level as possible.

good luck man, have fun.

Sounds like climbing more ought to be your project. Climb everything Fingers to hands and OW's, chimneys, overhanging crimpers, friction, etc. Get a well rounded skill set and have fun on all types of climbs.

Prod.

at this point, i think it would be good for you to start having short-term projects (ie that you can do in 3 or 4 tries). given your info, i would recommend making a list of about 10 routes in the 10c range. maybe spend half of your time working on projects, and half of your time getting really dialed in at the 9/10a range on all types of rock - cracks of all sizes, slabs, face, overhangs, stemming, etc.

doing things this way, you will get good mileage and have a lot of successful outings that keep you motivated towards working at harder routes.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think there is a set number you have to climb before you start projecting. If you are psyched to project, it can make you a better climber. You shouldn't project the route to the exclusion of all else, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having a "dream route" in the works.

Make sure to get that belay situation figured out, whether you are projecting or onsighting. It's crazy how many people subscribe to the "shortest fall possible" method, which is a dangerous way to climb. The dynamic belay is the way to go no matter what you're climbing.

i don't fully agree jay, it is a case-by-case basis. a good example is the front range, where a lot of the routes are somewhat littered with ledges. it's best to have a belayer who knows when a short, uncomfortable fall is better than a long fall onto a ledge.

slim wrote:i don't fully agree jay, it is a case-by-case basis. a good example is the front range, where a lot of the routes are somewhat littered with ledges. it's best to have a belayer who knows when a short, uncomfortable fall is better than a long fall onto a ledge.

Yes, I should say as long as you're climbing something steep. Ledges are a bad thing to hit, but getting slammed into the rock is bad too. You're right that it's situational.

JLP wrote: His 10a + 1 grade = 11a - know many 11a's you'd like to take a lot of long falls on? I don't.

Here's one:

Here's another:

And another:

JLP wrote:Those both look like ankle breakers to me. There's nothing to argue, though - I'm pretty sure you and the OP know what I'm saying.

Seriously? Maybe I don't know what you're saying.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the OP's skill level. Of course you need to have a level of proficiency in order to push your limit, but isn't that what he asked about? Plus, it sounded a bit like the ankle thing happened from a bad belay.

I would try to climb with someone who climbs a grade or so above you, if you can find such a partner. That way every route is a mini-project, you have a coach, and you're much less likely to get dropped and break your ankle again.

Eventually he or she will get tired of being your rope gun on every route and they'll make you take the sharp end on something that really tests you.

You can bring your best friend too. Of course this is all assuming you can find such a person. I think the best advice is above- work on your technique, train a little on movement and balance, buy the Self Coached Climber, watch other climbers etc...

Jay Knower wrote:it sounded a bit like the ankle thing happened from a bad belay.

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