Yech. Icky topic. State parks fee increase.

On November 1st, Colorado State Parks entrance fees are going up. In particular, Eldorado Canyon rates will be $8 for a day pass, $70 for an annual.

This does the thorny subject much more justice than I could:
parks.state.co.us/Pages/Fee…

So here's my question, especially for those of you who frequent Eldorado: In terms of facilities and trails, what can I do to make the new fees worthwhile?

I expect to take some heat for this, and I'm not going to play the "don't shoot the messenger" card. But at the end of the day, it's important to me to know that Eldo's climbers are getting their money's worth.

Regards

Mike McHugh
Park Resource Technician
Eldorado Canyon State Park
303.494.3943 x21
mike.mchugh@state.co.us

$8 for a day pass is starting to make me notice and I wouldn't go there for a short day. $70 for the year doesn't seem as bad but there are a few other state parks I use for mountain biking so I get extra use out of it. It's expensive enough that when my pass ran out this year I've been climbing elsewhere until I really had a desire to get to Eldo frequently for a while.

If a day pass is too expensive, it almost covers the gas for 2-3 guys to go to Vedauwoo or the Splatte for a day. Whatever that comparison is worth.

That being said I don't know how much more I can ask of the park to provide. I want parking, a bathroom and signs on the trails to the major destinations. Kept up trails (trimmed brush or poison plants) are great. Running water is nice but not really necessary. I can get almost all of that for free parking at Chautauqua and walking up to the flatirons.

Eldo always seems jam packed during "busy times" (summer weekends, holidays, etc) and I stay away anyway. I enjoy it most on off peak hours when I value a bit shorter approach and more closely packed hard climbing.

I don't know how much that helps but there is one climbers honest thoughts.

Not directed at Mike, but, Chris has hinted at my main question which is, has any member of our government, at any level, city, state, federal, ever taken an Economics class? Raising prices reduces demand. I bought a state parks pass the first year I lived here (I was shocked at the price, but figured it would be worth it). Then I realized CO only has two state parks worth visiting. When it expired, I stopped going to state parks. Anyway, its not that hard to get into Eldo without buying a pass, so its not a big deal to me. The Jetski crowd can have there reservoirs for all I care.

Monomaniac wrote:has any member of our government, at any level, city, state, federal, ever taken an Economics class?

Sounds like you slept in the day they lectured about the price elasticity of demand.

Mike McHugh wrote: So here's my question, especially for those of you who frequent Eldorado: In terms of facilities and trails, what can I do to make the new fees worthwhile?

Eldo is pretty sweet as it is: well maintained trails, parking, restrooms, park rangers responsive to climbers' concerns. As far as I'm concerned, keep doing what your doing, I'll gladly pay the extra loot.

Does the local revenue stay at that particular park through some mechanism? If $8.00 is the price of a movie (I don't get out much) it seems like a fair enough deal by comparison.

Date movie for 2 with no other candy or food is $20 or more. We stopped going to those almost completely as well.

Monomaniac raises a fair point. The National Parks Pass gets you into a whole countries worth of Parks so I think the prices are a little high for what you get, especially since the State Parks pass is for your car. ( I never knew my car enjoyed State Parks so much. ) I guess one could argue that the volume of visitors is higher at National Parks to cover revenue but I find that hard to believe.

As to the BBQ comment, if State Parks were for climbers, there would be no State Parks. As far as the lots filling at Eldo, that is the case at that one park, we are talking about an entire Parks system.

I primarily use Eldo and Golden Gate Canyon, I would be hard pressed to find anything regarding facility and maintenance that needs to be fixed. The climbing Rangers at Eldo should get a raise!

Some of the bigger parks are having record years, but Eldo's visitor count is remaining pretty static.

Perhaps the Eldo visitor count is static becasue the park fills to parking capacity on so many summer days? I don't know where you could go to increase capacity, but it seems like Eldo has a sort of built in limitor on visitation that is met on most Sat and Sun from March til Oct.

Sounds like I should go buy a new pass before the end of the month though since mine expired a couple months ago!

JLP, as a selfish climber, I understand your sentiment about the picnic crowd. But get real. Eldo is a state park; not a climbers'-only park. For many people, Eldo is the closest thing they'll ever have that resembles a wilderness experience, and personally I believe that is an important aspect of parks.

Mike, you guys do a fantastic job maintaining Eldo, and also making it very climber friendly. Your original post is a perfect example. We all owe you a debt of gratitude as we all know you do not get paid adequately for your dedication. I don't think you need to do anything other than what you're currently doing. An increase in fees for Eldo is worth it to me, although I cannot say I like it.

As a taxpayer, and looking at the elections coming up I am less enthusiastic about some of our other public employees, and especially the leaders that decide where and how money gets spent. Without trying to be a jerk, when I see the response for a climber with a broken ankle that I saw last weekend, I gotta believe there is a better use of scarce resources than sending three or more emergency vehicles and an army of law enforcement and rescue personnel. It just seemed out of proportion to the apparent seriousness of the situation. I know that this is a different issue than an increase in the fees for going to Eldo. My point is that *everyone* is asking taxpayers to support this cause, or that cause. Increased fees, requests for donations and gifts; the list goes on and on.

We're all getting squeezed by a system that in some places is just barely getting by, while in other places seems to be flush with resources.

As far as state parks in general it'd be nice if the state park near me (Mueller) allowed climbing. They used to, but now don't. Not sure why that changed but I am unhappy about it.

As for Eldo I think the fee is reasonable as compared to fees I've experienced in other states. Doesn't mean I'm happy about an increase but I pretty much put a National and State parks pass into my yearly budget. Since you're trying to make it more worth our money, which I think is awesome by the way, the only things that would make me enjoy Eldo more is better signage and camping. It's not that hard to get around Eldo but if there were some more signs directing climbers towards particular walls it'd make it so I don't have to fumble through the guidebook trying to figure out if I'm still on the West Ridge or Rincon, or which wall on the West Ridge. It took me a little while to learn my way around. This minor inconvenience would bother me less if there were camping though. The Boulder area just blows for camping. Driving up to the Eldo from Colorado Springs is kind of a hassle but since the camping is either overpriced or far away it usually makes more sense for me to just go somewhwhere else or make a day trip.

It doesn't even have to be a large or nice camping area either. Think Camp Slime. Just a few spots in the dirt where people can't park cars or RV's. Charge a few bucks and I would be there a lot more often.

As we pay more taxes and get less services in return, people are going to get more frustrated with the "system".

The rate of increase in the park fees has outpaced most cost of living increases. I understand that they need money to cover the losses do to state gov. contributions and the recession. But, at some point, something has to give.

For me, I'll not use the state parks. Since my taxes have not gone down, and the fees have gone up, my income has gone down, I have no choice. It is frustrating to be charged to us something that we already own and pay taxes to support.

YAWN

JLP wrote: Who said anything about climbers vs non-climbers? The BBQ crowd in question, though, can go hang out on some asphalt somewhere. They arrive in dozens of 2-3 passenger trucks, take up a lot of the parking, make noise, destroy things and litter while climbers, mtb'ers, runners and whoever else who arrives after 10am are effectively blocked out.

seems like to me that the citizens who arrive early with their kids and grills are just as entitled to use the park as the mtb'ers, runners and climbers are.

Same situation as the guys who arrive at the base of Rewritten at 9 am on a bluebird saturday in June only to find they are 3rd in line for the route.

Litter is a separate issue and inexcusable no matter what your doing in the park. I've picked up scraps from power bar wrappers and discarded climbing tape just as much as i've picked napkins blown away from a picnic or dropped by a toddler.

JLP wrote: The BBQ crowd in question, though, can go hang out on some asphalt somewhere.

...and they'd likely say you can go climb in a gym somewhere.

Judging how others enjoy themselves in the outdoors with a 'holier than thou' attitude isn't terribly helpful.

It's not *going* this way, JLP. It's been this way for quite a few years. Unfortunately it just gets worse over time. For example, the proposed increased peak fees on Denali. At first they just want to increase the fees for entering the park, and then over time, they want to charge $500 to climb a peak in the park. It effectively favors the foreign folks willing to pay a bunch of money to be guided up the peak. I call it double-taxation. I am certainly no conservative Republican, but I see government at all levels spending in a way that if I mimicked, I'd be bankrupt. It makes me suspicious of all the tax, fee, tuition, donation, gift, _____________, (fill in the blank) increases that are being asked of us all.

A simpler and less expensive solution to your problem of getting aced out on the weekends for parking space in Eldo is to get up earlier. If you're arriving there at 10:00 am, you've missed the best half of the day, anyway. :-)

My $ worth:

I've used my $60 pass (purchased in March) 36 times so far. $60/36= $1.67/visit. That’s a savings of $156 (off of the total price if I paid $6/day.)

$70/36= $1.94/visit. If the new day pass will be $8, then I’ve saved $218 by comparison in purchasing an annual pass.

So the day pass to annual pass ratio has changed. I'm not happy about another increase, but I guess we’ll have to live with it.

The BBQ crowd should be regulated to # of passengers/vehicle and subjected to fines when they’re caught littering. The littering Mike Pharris references is not the same as the littering I’ve observed. It’s not accidental or occasional; it’s a cultural divergence from the social norm of Boulder area residents and climbers alike. I’ve picked up scraps of tape and cigarette butts on belay ledges, but it’s not the same level of littering perpetrated by the BBQ crowd, not even close.

Overall I would say that Eldo does a great job maintaining the park for the largest single user group - climbers. About the only thing that would be nice to add would be some sort of trail around the base of the West Ridge that is usable in high water.

It is unfortunate that parks take such a budget hit when Medicaid and education gobble up ever larger percentages of the state budgets. Since I think climbers comprise 55% of the park users it would be interesting to know how much of the Eldo budget supports the climbers using the park.

CCC - free

North Table - free

Morrison - free

SPlatte - free

Boulder Canyon - free

Flatirons - free

A few hundred backcountry walls - free

Eldo was occassionally worth $3 in the day when it was $3. $8 a day? $70 a year? To wait in line and play dodge-rock, or watch the latest rescue? Nah. Not a chance.

$70 for an annual pass? That is a BARGAIN for what you get! No problems for me.
A ski pass at a resort that is only good for maybe 6 months can be well over that amount, actually quite a bit more money!
Membership to city rec centers cost more. Private health clubs and rock gyms are pricey, too.
Ok, so you can't climb in Eldo every day, with snow rain etc. But maybe you could hike there or run, or whatever.
On almost any day you couldn't climb.

For a whole year! Sweet. Worth every damn dime. Especially when you look at the past history of events leading up to the creation of the park; the place could've been a huge gravel and flagstone quarry right now. Pay your money. Be happy the Bastille wasn't used for paving the highway.

Dave Hurst wrote:$70 for an annual pass? That is a BARGAIN for what you get! No problems for me. A ski pass at a resort that is only good for maybe 6 months can be well over that amount, actually quite a bit more money! Membership to city rec centers cost more. Private health clubs and rock gyms are pricey, too. Ok, so you can't climb in Eldo every day, with snow rain etc. But maybe you could hike there or run, or whatever. On almost any day you couldn't climb. For a whole year! Sweet. Worth every damn dime. Especially when you look at the past history of events leading up to the creation of the park; the place could've been a huge gravel and flagstone quarry right now. Pay your money. Be happy the Bastille wasn't used for paving the highway.

Case in point, i just today plunked down $399 for a ski pass. I'm hoping to get my daily ski cost down to under $20 and I'll feel pretty good about it. Makes the state park CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP by comparison.

It is shocking for me to hear someone complain about an 8 dollar day pass when I happily pay 15 to climb in the Gunks. I think they put the money to good use. We have great trails that clearly take a lot of effort as they try to make them look natural and primarily use rocks off the carriage road to minimize impact. They also have emergency medical services that sit right below the wall area. If higher fees means I have a better chance of surviving a fall, consider my wallet open.