Rope management with doubles when belaying two seconds?!?

I'm wondering if anyone has any tips and tricks for belaying two seconds (climbing at the same time, offset) on doubles (from an ATC guide or Reverso).

Treat them as a single rope and stack/flake them together. They'll be offset by 30-40' (depending upon how close the climbers are)... but it still works out.

Andy Laakmann wrote:Treat them as a single rope and stack/flake them together. They'll be offset by 30-40' (depending upon how close the climbers are)... but it still works out.

Abso-friggin-lutely. I used to split them up, ending up with a huge headache.

Andy Laakmann wrote:Treat them as a single rope and stack/flake them together. They'll be offset by 30-40' (depending upon how close the climbers are)... but it still works out.

plus 1 (I guess plus 2 after Tim).

OR
get a snake charmer bag and stuff them as if you were on a wall, but thats not going to happen.

-Jon

Cool, thanks for the feedback. I'd belayed two seconds with doubles for the first time last weekend at Red Rocks, and pretty much did it exactly as you all are explaining, and was just wondering if there was some trick I was missing.

Add a rope hook into the equation. I generally carry one any route over three pitches when I'm using double ropes.

--Marc

Marc H wrote:Add a rope hook into the equation. I generally carry one any route over three pitches when I'm using double ropes. --Marc

+1

I went years climbing without a rope hook because I thought, 'its just an extra piece of gear that adds weight.' Well, after trying them out last year, I now use them all the time. My partners and I carry two and have one at each belay. Sooo much nicer than stacking on your harness or foot at a hanging belay.

An extendo draw clipped to the anchor and then clipped backed to itself works just like a rope hook and has multi-function.

Another +1 for the rope hooks. I'm really surprised they aren't used more in free climbing. I love mine.

who makes rope hooks? fish? yates?

who makes rope hooks? fish? yates?

Metolius Makes one. Not sure who else.

metoliusclimbing.com/rope_h…

Make your own.
I sometimes give them away as climbing party favors:

dude, I gotta party with you more often

I think I would have to use 6" PVC for the limited edition Buff Johnson model rope hook.

that's what she said

The speed of your seconds and your belay stance will dictate whether to flake both ropes together or separately. I find it to be easier management in the long run to keep them separate, especially on a small stance (where I use a double-length sling on the anchor to hold one rope; the other I flake on my tie-in). The Buff J Limited Ed. would be arguably quicker and more convenient here. If your seconds are climbing fast, just flake both together, and if you're worried about management shenanigans, it takes 30 seconds for them to reflake their own ropes while you're re-racking. Another trick that you can do if you're climbing with 2 skinny single ropes (as opposed to half ropes, where you'll want to be tied into both), is to clip into the rope you're not being belayed on with a locker. That way, when everyone gets to the belay, if you have tangles, it will be easy to unclip that line from you and untangle things. It takes a little practice to keep everything organized, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty efficient to move a team of three.

Gregger Man wrote:Make your own. I sometimes give them away as climbing party favors:

Note, I made a pair of these after seeing Gregger's post last year, don't buy thin PVC or cut it too narrow. They flex quite a bit and I cracked the other one when I caught it on an edge. I think I'll make it a bit more stout next time!

smassey wrote: Another trick that you can do if you're climbing with 2 skinny single ropes (as opposed to half ropes, where you'll want to be tied into both), is to clip into the rope you're not being belayed on with a locker.

I like this tip; question for everyone: my partner and I ended up buying to 9.4mm ropes because when I'm belaying up two seconds on the reverso it's hard to get any bigger ropes to feed easily through the device. Is the BD atc Guide better suited for larger diameter ropes? (i.e. does it have a larger opening so they'll feed easier?)

Abram Herman wrote: I like this tip; question for everyone: my partner and I ended up buying to 9.4mm ropes because when I'm belaying up two seconds on the reverso it's hard to get any bigger ropes to feed easily through the device. Is the BD atc Guide better suited for larger diameter ropes? (i.e. does it have a larger opening so they'll feed easier?)

I quit using a reverso and instead use a BD guide atc because I like the device better. That said, while a guide atc may feed a bit easier than a reverso, no device is going to make belaying easy when you use two "thick" ropes (read anything 9mm or above). In the future, consider buying a set of doubles (8.2-8.6mm) because you can almost always belay two seconds on them despite their thickness (note: there are routes, like those with a pitch with a particularly sharp edged roof etc., that I won't climb in a threesome with that skinny of a rope....this is rare though).

J. Albers wrote: I quit using a reverso and instead use a BD guide atc because I like the device better. That said, while a guide atc may feed a bit easier than a reverso, no device is going to make belaying easy when you use two "thick" ropes (read anything 9mm or above). In the future, consider buying a set of doubles (8.2-8.6mm) because you can almost always belay two seconds on them despite their thickness (note: there are routes, like those with a pitch with a particularly sharp edged roof etc., that I won't climb in a threesome with that skinny of a rope....this is rare though).

Thanks for the info, I really don't have a problem using the 9.4's, however I'm sure doubles are even easier. "use a BD guide atc because I like the device better", is it just ease of feeding, or are there other benefits you like about the BD versus petzl?