what post?

Mark Nelson wrote:we've put together a book of all platte regulations; you can pick up a copy at the house down by the sphinx. (no, don't be a moron)

I had a beer with that guy once at the Bucksnort (just kidding). Good times.

No bolts at cracks- suck it up. If modern gear does not fit then I gues s it's "R"

so it sounds like the best idea for you is to headpoint it, jason?

go get it! :)

I would be bummed if a hard aid line got down graded because someone had to give it a free ascent(I don't know if that's the case in this scenerio). The more hard aid routes (close to home) to learn on the better IMO.

Obviously you have the choice to not clip the bolt but still. Like when a nice crack get's bolted you have the choice to clip or not, but it still degrades the route no(obviously this is circumstantial)?

If someone else climbed it without the bolt (aid or free reguardless)then by adding the bolt your bringing the route down to your level right? I think it would be a more proud style sans bolts, but what does my opinion matter.

"Eric Rhicard
4 hours ago
Bolt it, and free climb it. It was an aid line and you are trying to free it thus I think you have the right to put in real pro. You can leave it spicy or not it is up to you. You could talk to the FA folks but I think adding pro in order to free an aid line trumps the FA of an aid line. Just my .02"

Why is it ok to bring a route down to your level just because you are trying to free it?
Why does that justify retro bolting with out permission? Why does it seem that a free ascent is viewed as being better then a hard aid ascent(assuming this is a hard aid line), both take alot of skill and commitment. Being a weak free climber myself I find this mentality discouraging. Aid climbers seem to get very little respect from the free climbing revolutionary's, just cause you can free climb something doesn't mean your better or have the right to do whatever you need to make the route safe.
(not directed at you Jason, more like at Erics blissful ignorance)

I have a feeling I'm going to need a flame suit pretty soon.

If pins fit -so will gear. Make yourself PROUD . Do the route in superb style and you won't ever regret your effort. Set a pin or two that are good, find a spot for some additional -cams or wires and get after it !!!! Anybody can climb hard next to a bolt . Raise the bar - don't lower it . P. S.- Don't be so sure about only one ascent, the Platte has a long history full of some hard ass climbers who have done much to be respected. Good Luck and post when you FIRE IT !!!!

Hea Jason,
Look at the huge spread of responses that you have generated by ASKING about the standards of the S. Platte. Hats off to you for not just reto-bolting some out of the way piece of rock and assuming that you were the second one ever to notice it! We as climbers have a responsibility to ourselves to police ourselves or The B.L.M., National Forest Service,N.P.S. sure as hell will be doing this for us or for our kids in our lifetimes. Ethics in climbing? It is 2009 and yes we still need some ethics applied by ourselves , even just to go climb a rock. There is no BOOK at this time!
T. A.

Jason Kaplan wrote:I would be bummed if a hard aid line got down graded because someone had to give it a free ascent(I don't know if that's the case in this scenerio). The more hard aid routes (close to home) to learn on the better IMO. Obviously you have the choice to not clip the bolt but still. Like when a nice crack get's bolted you have the choice to clip or not, but it still degrades the route no(obviously this is circumstantial)? If someone else climbed it without the bolt (aid or free reguardless)then by adding the bolt your bringing the route down to your level right? I think it would be a more proud style sans bolts, but what does my opinion matter. "Eric Rhicard 4 hours ago Bolt it, and free climb it. It was an aid line and you are trying to free it thus I think you have the right to put in real pro. You can leave it spicy or not it is up to you. You could talk to the FA folks but I think adding pro in order to free an aid line trumps the FA of an aid line. Just my .02" Why is it ok to bring a route down to your level just because you are trying to free it? Why does that justify retro bolting with out permission? Why does it seem that a free ascent is viewed as being better then a hard aid ascent(assuming this is a hard aid line), both take alot of skill and commitment. Being a weak free climber myself I find this mentality discouraging. Aid climbers seem to get very little respect from the free climbing revolutionary's, just cause you can free climb something doesn't mean your better or have the right to do whatever you need to make the route safe. (not directed at you Jason, more like at Erics blissful ignorance) I have a feeling I'm going to need a flame suit pretty soon.

Have you ever climbed a pin-scar route in Boulder Canyon? General consensus (there are always extremists) has always been that freeing a hammer-up aid line takes precedence due to the damage that hammering brings. It is NOT the same as clean aid. If this were some epic adventure it would be well-known, and the pin scars much greater.

Sounds to me that your roof is about 15-18 feet with a 1/8" fracture at best. At .13+ it would be a stunning trad lead with a very short list of people who could pull it off. Pre-placed gear is an option some might prefer, I think it is moronic because the crucial aspect of clean gear is hanging out to place it; and a big fall would likely crank a piece in permanently so that it is no different than a bolt.

If you want to place a bolt, you will likely have to do an aid ascent first, which would mean probably yanking the old pins out and hammering in new ones; then you've kinda legitimized the aid line and may want to keep it as such. Plus, if the roof is as big as you say, one bolt is not enough, if you get too far out you will slam into the wall with the force of a pretty high groundfall.

If you think what sounds like a boulder problem up high on a crag is a worthwhile addition to the Splatte (mindful that 90% of Splatteheads hate rap-bolts and would be angered over your work); or that as a personal challenge it is worth it then consider it. If its just going to be a thing, I wouldn't bother.

The like-for-like anchor replacement is just a bureaucratic contrivance for heavily regulated areas.

jason,

tough question for sure, do you know who did the FA? if so, maybe they can give some input. good luck, and keep us posted.

Keeping the project secret is paramount, but I'm going nuts trying to think of a big roof with fixed pins in the Platte.

South Platte Ethic? I started doing routes in the Platte to get away from the morality narcs.

Ken:
Apparently the morality narcs are still patrolling. I have been informed that the 2 bolted lines to the right of the Classic Dihedral on Bucksnort have had their hangers pounded flat once again. The folks are too much! I just wish it would stop.

In general, I think that these 'ethical issues' get sticky when you are freeing someone else's 'aid' route. Now that i have thought about it, i will contradict my earlier statement and say dont add any fixed gear or bolts to the route if you can help it. Eventually one could ask themself, "what is the point?" Is one's life/health worth preserving their Ego (or someone else's?) OR conversely is one's FFA worth sacrificing style?

this is not about right/wrong, good/bad. its just rock climbing. everyone's style is different. if it were all standardized, this website would be boring.

as a side note:

Ken Trout wrote:a big roof with fixed pins in the Platte.

i can think of one, but it would probably be easier than 13+, and i would bet that someone like Noel already did that one free. Even though there are pins in it, it would take TCUs. I am sure though that this isnt Jason's proj.

There is plenty out there that hasnt been done. For example, i know of a virgin line that is similar to Sphinx Crack, but thinner and longer.. Now if i could just remember how to get to it!? ;)

The only CONSISTENT ethic I am aware of in the South Platte is the following: If you're "in the club" you can do whatever you want. Otherwise, see the Rule Book.

The long time Platte climbers who have already posted could tell you more about this. Care to share boys?