I am a X.n climber

Peter Arndt wrote:I'm getting "tired" of climbers imposing "new rules" on other climbers.

I totally agree. Call yourself whatever you want, as far as I'm concerned.

that damned 5/WI/M.too level always shuts my ass down.

(Larson, I don't care what anyone else says, WI4 is big F'n grade)

When climbing with a new partner I always climb well within my own limits, and choose something well below the limit of my new partner. If they claim they can lead 5.10a I might suggest something around 5.8. The reason for this is mainly safety and it gives us a chance to get to know each other. I've never had a new partner that has had a problem with this and most times that first climb together has been very enjoyable.

I'm wary with new partenrs, but found most of them are actually sandbagging... but not all of them. I always tell them that I'll do whatever, provided that they are leading it, and that on a first day out I don't want to go multi-pitch or on anything that I wouldn't solo. J.H., T.D., K.A., D.I & S.V. All of them were fine with it, all of them could climb as hard as they said, or harder. I'd still climb with any of them.

must be careful of new climbers. I learned this the fun way on the Sliding Board on Whitehorse Ledge, NH and in the Gunks with the same guy! Thankfully my bro and climbing mentor were there as well so as not to ruin the trips!! I had to lower him from the start of the 2nd pitch on Whitehorse!! Oh well at least he didn't wait till we were 3 or 4 pithes up!

I think climbing, actually being on the rock or ice brings out a person's character especially when things go shitty. God I wish I could get out more!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a 5.5 climber, but I managed to pull off a 5.12 this weekend

If everyone were honest about their climbing abilities, we wouldn't have these hilarious stories to read, such as the Epic Mike incident:

cushman.net/2007/06/05/clim…

(Mark, if you don't want this posted I'll delete the link)

Personally I am more concerned about how good of a belayer someone is before tying in with them, assuming you only climb non-committing routes until you know each other better.

Tom Hanson wrote:I'm a 5.5 climber, but I managed to pull off a 5.12 this weekend

can I average that to make myself feel better?

Kateri Aren't wrote:If everyone were honest about their climbing abilities, we wouldn't have these hilarious stories to read, such as the Epic Mike incident: cushman.net/2007/06/05/clim… (Mark, if you don't want this posted I'll delete the link)

No problem, if I didn't want it read then I wouldn't have put it on my website! Now I don't get more than one pitch off the ground with someone new unless I'm REALLY, REALLY sure they know their stuff.

There is an interesting postscript to my story, another MP.com user got out with Epic Mike in the Valley and posted his story to the taco:

supertopo.com/climbing/thre…;msg=640649#msg640649

doug s wrote:Wow, nothing like a sharp stick in the pride to get people going a thread. Having been part of the conversation that led Jon to post, I think it is important to understand why he posted in the first place. I firmly believe that the intention of this post was more about the safety of both parties while climbing. Not about judging or imposing rules. When finding a new climbing partner, it is important to understand each others capabilities and limitations, in order to not put some one in a position that they may be injured or endangering the other party on the climb. It is disappointing to me that people can't be honest with themselves and their limitations - regardless if it is a "high gravity day." Communication is vital to ensure success in climbing - and if you aren't honest with yourself then it may endanger your partner. Just my .02

I cant agree more with this post. I have had some pretty scary shit happen becuase someone had too big of a head to actually slow down on the climbing and learn. COuld have killed himself and who knows who else. Know your limitations and EXPERIANCE. Just cuase you can lead something int h4e gym or follow/TR a grade a couple times dont mean you can climb it any given day. Not knowing proper skills and saftey is the worst thing you can find in a partner. You'd be surprised how many people try to fake it for sake of being harassed or having to listen. If someone tags along for a climb with out a word of experiance talk and then flogs up every possible safty practice or belay call they need to be parked in the gym for a while longer. Dont kill your partner cuase you have big dreams. Learn how to climb before you whore yourself out to anyone with a rack and a rope.
for their sake at least.

What's funnier than reading the post about Epic Mike, is hearing Mark recount it over beers...I think I wet my pants.

I propose everyone record each ascent with points assigned for:

Route:
1. steepness
2. friction
3. size of holds
4. variation of dificulty
5. length, # pitches, etc...
Personal:
6. mental comfort
7. physical energy left afterward
8. personal opinion of ascent style

Then we can takes statistics and give a score based on any of the above factors.

doug s wrote:What's funnier than reading the post about Epic Mike, is hearing Mark recount it over beers...I think I wet my pants.

Wow.. how much beer did you drink to cause that?

Rick Blair wrote: Wow.. how much beer did you drink to cause that?

Not Literally, but thanks. Have you read the story? You couldn't make up a funnier (sorry Mark) climbing story.

you should see me belay when I'm sober; I cann handle dat rope like nobody elsh

Dave Holliday wrote: How is it that you attract so many climbing partners who are full of it?

Maybe everyone attracts them and the question is how some avoid them...

I avoid attracting them by telling them I'm not guiding The Naked Edge (or whatever) and that I'dd do hard stuff with them if they lead... So they are generally honest with me.

I also go look on line and see what kind of stuff they are usually climbing and what they have to say about it.

Next, I ask them, point blank, "What level do you feel compentent to lead, on-sight, on trad gear?" and also "What level do you feel compentent to follow on trad gear without being hoisted."

Lastly, if someone wants to go climb, and I don't know them at least 2nd hand, I look into their 'story' if there is no apparent good reason why they don't already have a partner, then maybe there is an unapparent reason why they don't have a partner.

IE: "I just moved here from Albequeque" (OK, doesn't have a partner)
IE: "My partners all quit climbing with me." (OK, maybe not good)

Don't get me wrong, I've attracted a few wankers as potential partners, but I think I've filtered most of them off via checking them out via all these ways...

T.D. Told me he lead 5.9's and was solid but was eager to push it into 10's. The first day I climbed with him, he lead several 10's on-sight.
K.A. Said she was leading 10's on sport and aspiring on trad. I've followed her on sport 5.11 and trad 5.10 since...
D.I. Said he could lead into the 10's and was interested in 11's. I've followed him on 10's and he tried on some 11's.

No sob stories from me. Regardless of the level, I got what I expected or better each time, and made some new pals who are willing to drag me around when I am in a cast or whatever.

I think alot of it depends on the type of rock. For example, I climb 10b/c at Devil's lake. The first time I went to Jackson Falls, my brother puts me on a 11a slab. Once I figured out how to smear(and to trust the friction), I didn't have many problems climbing routes in the 11a/b range.

I can definitely climb a 5.n00b, solid too.

Jay Knower wrote: I totally agree. Call yourself whatever you want, as far as I'm concerned.

exactly right Jay,

my opinion is that climbing grades are subjective to your style of climbing and body type, also who cares about grades have fun, sure grades are a good guide line but not anything overly important.

people making the argument about climbing with someone new who misleads you as to how hard they climb should also be blamed for the danger they put themselves in, why would you ever climb at somebody's limit the first time you climb with them, if i climb with a new partner i always get on some routes that are well within both our ranges and work up from there, this give you an idea of how knowledgeable this person is...

but that's just my opinion

Nick Stayner wrote:I'm still at a loss as to how any of this matters. This thread is about the ratings we give ourselves in our profiles, right? I had mine set for a while, until I looked at my own profile again and realized how silly it looked (to me, at least). To those of you who believe in the self-ratings, do you seek out partners based on this tidbit of info in others' profiles? I always liked the ticklist idea. If you're looking for a partner, how about posting some of the routes you're thinking about? Way better means of finding someone capable. If you're worried about getting committed with a partner who just can't hack it... like others have said--you probably shouldn't be up there with the given person. But carry on! This thread is for those who care about things like rating themselves.

Uhh, well if it strokes your values to say in such a way that you don't care and people that do are silly, I hope you feel better now.

About 10 years ago I went up for a very famous route in Eldo with a guy who wanted to do it. It was on his 'wish list' obviously. He refused to lead anything once we got there. I got suckered into guiding it for free, essentially. I bailed after 3 pitches. So yes, it mattered how hard he ACTUALLY climbed... and YES, if someone wants to go climb a 5.N, then they should be able to climb 5.N.

I'd say that quite literally 1/2 of the "cold calls" I get for a partner are for The Naked Edge (although I've had 1 for Jules Verne). Upon scrutiny, it's pretty clear that a majority of the people that ask couldn't lead it themselves... One's ticklist and other aspirations may not reflect their present abilities.

Seems to matter to me. And I still think that I am an OK person.

Second thing: Lets say user so-and-so thinks route This-And-That was a total sandbag when they wrote the description. Then you check their profile and see that it is rated 5.11a but they rate themselves a 10b climber... You consider the source. Likewise, maybe they say it is a cinch... but you see that they are a 13c climber... Again, you consider the source.

It is just information, not a moral dilemma.