POOR INDIAN CREEK!

Obviously, in the last five years, indian creek has become much more of a "destination." Don't worry david bloom, i won't blame you directly for there are many contributing factors. Anyway, during a recent visit, I was bombarded by everything from rifle climbers loudly conducting 'victory whippers' off of anchors after their killer pinkpoints, to shit storms of overturned rocks and shallow graves at you name the campground. Not the Indian Creek scene of the past and needless to say, this place is starting to get more worked over than even cattle can accomplish. So, knowing how bureaucracies such as the BLM, and concerned citizens react to over/mis-use of an area, what are we to do for the future of climbing at the creek?

Sounds like I better get over there before everyone f's it up.

Get you licks in while you can, it's only a matter of time before it becomes Yosemite-ized.

-n

The #1 thing we can each and all do is NOT do things liek that ourselves.
The #2 thing we can each do is make sure nobody with us is doing it.
The #3 thing we can each do is watch for and educate anyone else who is doing it.

I'm on the fence about how to 'enforce' on a beligerent F%$#-up, and not quite sure how I'd handle that. Some people are not interested in education or what is right for the land. I guess you simply have to figure out what motivates them then go to that corner of the psyche, but it's rarely social pressure. What are the Law Enforecement options?

oftentimes i employ the saying: there's no situation so bad that a cop can't make it worse-feel free to interchange cop with BLM...

99% agreed. But if someone is totally fucking a place up, I'd still be tempted to at least to pretend to go get the cops. Problem is if they call your bluff, then you have to do it.

In all seriousness, I'm not convinced that the new book or the splitter camps is to blame for any of the overcrowding. It might just be that it's now a pop destination. Movies about it and all the net-hype, mags, etc... I mean where else is like it? Not much.

I do think that to some degree, the new guide helps spread the impact. Imagine eif 100% of the people were still just going to Super Crack, Cat, the Res, Scarface, Donnelly and Battle of the Bulge. Nightmares!

Agreed that the crowding is inevitable. But as far as impact is concerned, is it better to spread it out to many previously unvisited canyons, or to have a few "sacrifice" areas like supercrack, etc? oh well I guess it's a pop destination and we'll have to just prepare for all the camping/enforcement nightmares.

I still have some hope. But any sort of turn-around will have to involve those 3 behaviors I mentioned before. Self, friends and others.

I think that the "spread out" effect is a good one. I think that the spread out crowd is a smaller sub-group which will have smaller impacts. We'll still be sacrificing Supercrack and Donnelly. Maybe not Donnelly. The Nature Conservancy, who owns that canyon and crag might step in and do something, but I expect it to be a little less heavy handed than government action, at least at first. I'd hope for them to install a toilet.

It's too late to save Indian Creek.
All you can do is move on.........

There's plenty of other cliffs to visit and campgrounds to spend time in where there aren't the thoughtless masses.

jack roberts wrote:It's too late to save Indian Creek. All you can do is move on......... There's plenty of other cliffs to visit and campgrounds to spend time in where there aren't the thoughtless masses.

As you are heading towards Moses you pass by Mineral Bottom. I've done around 100 BASE jumps off these cliffs, and as you are flying down them you see nothing but 365' SPLITTERS
EVERY 50'! The Mineral Bottom cliffs are as scenic as you could ever want, very reasonable approaches, there's a boat put in/take out and even a small dirt airport. You could climb there for a lifetime and not get to a fraction of it. The cliffs go on forever and as far as I know not a single route exists. Yet.

P.S.-Sam Lightner Jr. could probably correct that last statement if need be.

gaper wrote:...rifle climbers loudly conducting 'victory whippers' off of anchors after their killer pinkpoints...

They do know that most anchors in the creek shouldn't be trusted for much more than rapping and lowering, right?

I'm almost glad that I didn't go this last week.

Lets get back to THINGS YOU CAN DO for the creek plz

On a "rest day", help MAINTAIN CAMPING AREAS... The last time I was at the creek, my climbing partner and I arranged rocks around the road and campsites to keep people from driving all over the desert. I'm excited to get back and see if it's still holding up - it's the left for at Super Bowl Camping if anyone can tell me. Heads up though: moving a ton of rocks all day isn't exactly a rest day.

Any other ideas, besides pickup trash (of course)?

... things we can do, besides:
-The #1 thing we can each and all do is NOT do things liek that ourselves. The #2 thing we can each do is make sure nobody with us is doing it. The #3 thing we can each do is watch for and educate anyone else who is doing it.
-donate some $ to the FOIC

I'd also like to mention, it's probably better to NOT get cops involved if it can be avoided in any way.. the better we govern ourselves here, the less likely this place will get paved over. (my opinion at least)... actually, I think I read that in Boom's guidebook.

my 5cents

Hank, thanks for the perspective. At mineral Bottom there are a few established climbs, but no few people know the names and ratings so even fewer go there. You can get really pumped, but you can't get credit for ticking a "5.1XX"... so its not popular.

Then there is the other side of the river... I.C. mirror. Runs 100+ miles of wingate with nothin' noted. Hell, I bet Buttes of the Cross hasn't been climbed more than 5 times.

It's always interesting to read such a tale of woe and "misbehaviour" when it's the only contribution from someone ("Gaper").

I agree with Jack, IC is now a worldwide destination. If you don't like the crowds, it's time to move on.

It's a challenge to keep the status quo at the Creek, there will always be more and more someones who won't share your vision of what that is.

Seems, EVERY time there's something truly good, people will try to "Manage It", and the result is a total fuckup.

Of course, we can all minimize damage to the Creek, the Valley, the Park, the Daks and everywhere by not breeding. Otherwise pretend to minimize impacts in the short term and wait for the death of nature in the long term. I can't name one good thing that people have done for the planet, can you?

ps My daughter Alissa says I should tell you that "Indian Creek Rocks!"

Indian Creek is just too popular. No one person is to blame. It's been a long time coming and whenever a place draws too many people that place suffers. People bring too many ropes and spend all day monopolizing climbs, not allowing other people to get on them. They take huge "victory swings" and yell and scream. Splitter camps enter the scene and also take over climbs and camp grounds. People make firepits everywhere. People who aren't climbers camp because the Needles campground is full and then the areas around the entrance become overcrowded. Bridger Jack just becomes an overflow campground. There are just too many people "loving the desert to death". I think it's gone beyond the point where going up to someone and asking them politely to "----you name it----" is gone because there are many who just don't care.

Probably the BLM will have to come in and restrict the camping and monitor the place. It's gone beyond the control of just a ffew people who care. It happened at Shelf Road and at any number of other places......Like I stated before. There are lots of canyons like Indian Creek that are easy to get to. Splitter cracks, awesome camping, some solitude... But it takes some inititive to find them and you might not get like it because there isn't much of a scene, which is at least 70% of the reason people go to the Creek in the first place. It's fun to swing on ropes with other people. And if you do a 5.11++++ that no one knows about no one cares about what you've done.

If people REALLY loved climbing in the desert they would go somewhere else to do their thing and they do. They just don't blow their horn.

EXACTLY

I agree with Jack on this. IC has gotten out of control- I have done some self policing of friends and strangers alike, but there are just more people going to IC. You hear about self publicized creekends with these large groups going to camp in areas with dogs, and etc, then they go and gang bang a cliff. To each his own- I am glad the creek is there and I will continue to support the place financially and physically.

How often can someone just leave a trailer out there or set up shop at the base of the fin wall or at the parking lot of the cat wall before BLM is going to have to step it up. You cant do that at any other climbing "destination" in this country so thats what makes the creek special?

They already made efforts to block off the camping by inscription rock, they shut down alot of the free range camping at the bridger jacks- now jackasses just camp wherever they can supercrack butt parking lot, the road across from super(turd)bowl that heads to cliffs of insanity, the meat walls P lot area. This is all poor form by the climbers that do this, but I dont think they really care because they get to go TR scar face or frig there way up some hard route. Its a SCENE to climb at the Creek. Most people dont go there to climb- the go there to be seen. I think climbers that do things like this are ignorant- maybe there should be a desert aptitude test that should be passed prior to getting the hall pass to the creek?
I would hate to see BLM or some law enforcement agency get involved that is only going to make things worse.

Here's my solution- my boss always tells me he wont listen to me bitching if I have a solution.

put a big F'ing sign up Right off off HWY 211 in reflective yellow that says this:

Watch Out for Deer

Do not Camp anywhere other than a designated spot withing 1/2 mile of a pit toilet.

Pack out your poop

If you dont know where these camp sites are, how to poop in a bag, be discreet, return to where you came from.

I like the scene at Indian Creek. Its great to be able to share evening beers and climbing stories below the Bridgers with people from all over the world. For such a popular destination, IC is relatively pristine and everyone I have met there seems to maintain the ethic that it is our responsibility as users of the land to keep it that way. I challenge you to come up with another user group that utilizes an area in such numbers while leaving such a minimal footprint. I think this blog has once again reverted to, "back in the day" nostalgia. P.S. I know of no one who pink points and victory whippers are awesome.

For the most part I agree with Will...
Its not ruined unless your idea of a good IC day is seeing no one. Then you have a beef.
We are pretty good patrons. We try and stay on trails, there are lines a t the poop saloon in the morning, and no one yet has carved "Juan Loves Carla" at the base of Supercrack.

If you need total isolation from other parties you can get it in the desert... I live in Moab and I probably only climb at IC 10 times a year cus I go to so many other places. I admit there is a scene, but there is a scene at every recreation area with this much use.... check out the Slickrock Trail parking lot.

ITs a crowded recreation area, but as crowded recreation areas go its in pretty good shape and it didn't maintain its healthy status because the govt. stepped in. We did it.

Oh, WIll... ixnay on the victory whipzay... it weakens the bolts in wingate and they have to be replaced sooner.

Climbers are generally good people. It's the local law enforcment from Moab and Monticello we should be worried about. Here are two stories I heard from different climbers in Yosemite this fall.

The first was a report that the campgrounds in Indian Creek are being watched with night vision equipment in an attempt to bust pot smokers and extort hundreds of dollars in fines.

The second story was about an equally creepy river trip bust at Westwater Canyon. Narcs with binoculars watched a river runners camp from the rim. The next day, back at the cars, these cops searched the group and found nothing. So a narc runs his finger around the ashtray of one vehicle and claims he found "marijuana resin". He wrote the owener a $400 ticket.

I belive these accounts because a similar thing happened to me in 1980. Many climbers have been illegal searched in the Canyonlands area. Derek Hersey looked like easy prey to the San Juan County Sherrif Department in the 1980's. Of course, he never smoked but he had long hair. They searched his car for an hour on the Indian Creek road and found nothing.

Both smokers and nonsmokers, we are ALL being spied on. My idea is that climbers, bikers, and river folk should begin an economic boycott of Utah. Still climb in Canyonlands, but buy everything in Colorado first. And we need to let the voters and local businesses in Moab and Monticello know why.

Maybe this should be a new forum topic on both Mountain Project and other sites like Supertopo.

"victory whippers are awesome" Uh, no they're not.

"Both smokers and nonsmokers, we are ALL being spied on. My idea is that climbers, bikers, and river folk should begin an economic boycott of Utah. Still climb in Canyonlands, but buy everything in Colorado first. And we need to let the voters and local businesses in Moab and Monticello know why. "

Good point Ken. Good climbing in western colorado too...