Non-climbing spouse?

Okay, so this friend of mine has a spouse that's not a climber. She's not too fond of his climbing. He's tried the "respect mah authoritah" route - and was met with howls of derisive laughter.

Those of you who have a non-climbing spouse, significant other, whatever - how have you come to a mutually satisfactory arrangement? Is there even such a thing?

And if there are any of the aforementioned spouses perusing this fine site, how do you deal with a climber spouse?

I, er, my friend thanks you.

What is it specifically she doesn't like? Inherent risk, time away, your obsession and ignoring her?

Or are you just with the wrong woman?

There is only one thing I know, from Disney: You can't bottle up the wind.

Mike McHugh wrote:Okay, so this friend of mine has a spouse that's not a climber.

A friend of yours?

Two words:

ice axe.

just kidding, that's a little extreme.
in all honesty, i don't think it works to well to mix and match--climbing's a lifestyle.

If you got married before making sure she understood climbing's place in your life, then that is your fault, not hers.

I disagree with Robert about mixing and matching. The key is above.

But really Mike, why would you marry a woman who doesn't respect your innate authority as a man??!! Dude...

Divorce or quiting climbing is the answer. Divorce is how mine ended. A non climbing spouse especially a woman will never understand and only looks as climbing as something you would rather do than be with her. About having kids....when you do it, it definetly only gets worse because she now has guilt leverage on you. I tried for 8 years to balance the two and it always failed. Maybe I always failed. I have been divorced now for for 9 months and absolutely love it. I would highly reccomend divorce to anybody with a non climbing spouse.

From my perspective, you're out of luck. I've been married twice to non-climbers, and both times I've had to choose. Guess what?...I've been divorced twice!

Did she not know you climbed when she married you? If so, that's kind of messed up that she would want you to drop it when you'd been doing it all along.

Mine knew what she was getting into and has never tried to be controlling about how and when i climb. It is bad juju to be in a relationship were one is trying to change the other, and we both understand this. In fact I just came off a minor shoulder injury that had me out for about 5 weeks. When i told her i was going to spend the following Saturday climbing, her eyes lit up. Her words, "Your a dick when you don't get to go climbing enough." This is not to say I don't have to meet her half way, I don't do multi-day over-nighters every weekend and I don't put up a fight when she wants me to spend some of my vacation days over the holidays with her family(ARUUGHH!!) My main point is, trying to change a significant other/spouse is an unrealistic goal.

Also, some friends have said, "get her into climbing". WRONG. I like our time apart.And for those climbing couples out there, bringing a argument from home to the crag sucks for your friends. Leave it at home(ha)

Men get married thinking she WON'T change. Women get married thinking that he WILL change. The problem with this is that both are wrong.

What are her interests? Can you set a day and an evening aside where you do your thing and she does hers?

Both of my ex's were well aware of my addiction. Tony, I think you hit it on the head. Eventually, the climbing side becomes too great of a burden on the relationship, not to mention the petty jealousies involved with the occassional female climbing partner.

John J. Glime wrote:If you got married before making sure she understood climbing's place in your life, then that is your fault, not hers. I disagree with Robert about mixing and matching. The key is above.

It sounded really great

John J. Glime wrote:But really Mike, why would you marry a woman who doesn't respect your innate authority as a man??!! Dude...

until I read this!!

Anyhoo, it would be nice to hear perspectives from women-married-to-non-climbing-men too. However, I can state that 1) it's hard not to date male climbers when you're a female climber because there's just so many of em and some of them won't leave you alone, and 2) we do actually run into the same problems when the guys don't be climbin'....

I dated one guy (a very outdoorsy type himself) who did not climb and, although he tried it once with me, knew that he would never, ever want to pursue it in any possible way. Although he thought it was hot that I was a female who actually owned her own backpacking stove and would go bushwhacking with him for hours, he felt the climbing had too much hold over my life and it wouldn't work out, EVEN THOUGH I told him for a truly serious relationship I would strike a balance (we were not dating truly seriously yet). For the record, I kept my climbing activities separate and spent my time with him hiking, off roading, etc.

It was for the best. BUT...these things are a problem to some degree.

Most of my married male partners seem to have wives who respect that they need and want to get out a couple times a month with occasional longer trips as well. Perhaps they are the "gold standard" kind of couples. Most of these guys do seem to obviously work toward giving their wives equal time and attention, however. One of my partners got his wife to love Yosemite by taking her there for stays at their luxury hotel (granted, he had $$, but I suppose you can make something similar work in other, less-visited climbing areas if she hates camping). She enjoyed the accommodations and other amentities and he got to climb too.

I also think if a spouse has a very independent nature and/or intense interests of his/her own, this makes for greater flexibility and understanding about the time required to get away. Unfortunately, I do think women esp. are often put into and expected to assume roles in the household and family life that preclude them from developing and maintaining passionate interests separate from those of the family. It's not impossible, but rarely do I see men staying home to take care of the kids and clean the house while their wife goes off regularly for a ski day or weekend. Rather, when the wife gets out, it's usually in the form of family trips where her responsibilities just continue.

I think you might find your wife more compromising about your need to climb if you made her life/leisure time easier too by doing more (or even a lot more) around the house and, if you have children, trading off time staying home with kids so she doesn't feel resentful that you are getting something she is not. If she doesn't have any pursuits that would give her something to "get away to," ask her to think about what she would do with her leisure time if she had nobody else to think about except herself and encourage her in the pursuit of something uniquely her own. But don't forget to make priority for pursuits and time together too!

I know that sounds like a huge debt of time, but I think even a little here could go a long way!

Best of luck.

Almost all men do something to recreate away from their wife. Some fish, play poker, golf, hunt, work on the car, etc. Your buddy's wife needs to understand that if he stops climbing he is likely to pick-up something else. Probably something more expensive.

I agree with all those who acknowledge balance. With my wife, if I climb on Saturday I don't climb on Sunday. If I take off for a weeklong climbing trip that normally means I don't climb the next week or two.

I find that the key is the wife needs something to do to occupy her time while he is climbing. If she is sitting at home bored then her jealousy or anger will rise. If she is out getting a message with her friends she won’t mind as much.

Marriage means compromise and sacrifice (among other things). If your friend thinks he should be climbing as much as he did before he was married he is a bit off.

By some of the comments in here, I wonder if it's really the climbing that is ruining your relationships with women.

Tony, Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your wife as hardcore about climbing as you are? If so, then which women are you referring to?

If you (directed at everyone) know that climbing is a very important and time-consuming part of your lifestyle, then you need make sure that you relay that to anyone who is contemplating a serious relationship with you, and understand that words aren't always enough to make the point. Make sure that you involve them in your activity to the extent that they have no misconceptions about what they are getting themselves into. It is better that they learn that up front so that there are no surprises down the road.

And about the women-always-want-to-change-men comment, I think it's just a wee bit patronizing to women. I have been with Betsy for almost eleven years, and she has never tried to change me. If you feel that way, the problem is that you aren't communicating very well with your partner. Put some of that responsibility on your own shoulders instead of making women out to be overbearing nags.

Obviously it takes a special woman to marry a climber, and if that woman doesn't happen to climb then my personal experience says good luck. Here are some techniques I've used to prolong the inevitable.

1. When said climber returns from climbing related outing climber will not talk about his trip till the following day.
2. The following day description of prior climbing trip will be discussed while climber and wife are shopping for spouse's desired knick-knacks.
3. Climber will focus on how much he missed his significant other when telling his "epic" tale of cragging.
4. Climber must resist the urge to talk about routes, movement, blah blah....your spouse has no real interest. Instead focus on how beautiful the setting is, the surrounding mountains, rivers, oh, and wild life. Maybe you saw an elk maybe it was a bobcat...
5. Bring something back for her. It could be a pretty rock from the parking lot, whatever, just bring a little something to let her know she is almost as important as climbing.
6. If none of the above bring positive results, purchase a Gri-Gri and teach her how to belay. You might as well get some climbing in before she goes out.

I work for a Harley-Davidson dealer and I'm a pretty avid climber so I feel as though I am somewhat of an authority on this subject.

I would ask your friend 1 question:

"Will your wife divorce you over climbing"?

If the answer is yes...than it's been a long time coming. Wish him well and keep in mind; single climbers make the best partners!!!

Luke Hanley wrote:5. Bring something back for her. It could be a pretty rock from the parking lot, whatever, just bring a little something to let her know she is almost as important as climbing.

[Above emphasis on 'almost' added by me, not original author.]

This is one of the funniest things that I've ever read on MP.com. Luke, I really hope your wife doesn't peruse these threads. LOL.

Tony Bubb wrote:Men get married thinking she WON'T change. Women get married thinking that he WILL change. The problem with this is that both are wrong.

Ken Cangi wrote:And about the women-always-want-to-change-men comment, I think it's just a wee bit patronizing to women. I have been with Betsy for almost eleven years, and she has never tried to change me. If you feel that way, the problem is that you aren't communicating very well with your partner. Put some of that responsibility on your own shoulders instead of making women out to be overbearing nags.

I've never been married. But it has been my experience that most of the women that I've dated have had this 'picture' in their minds of what I, as their significant other, should be like or how I should act. They have definitely steered me in this direction in hopes of trying to change me. It never worked; I'm single. I think there is a definite correlation.

I think Tony's got a very valid point, Ken, from my experience. I think you misunderstood his words and created an overreaching conclusion (ie 'making women out to be overbearing nags.') While you may have struck a great balance with your wife, I think you are probably the exception with this particular issue.

--Marc

Marc Horan wrote:I've never been married. But it has been my experience that most of the women that I've dated have had this 'picture' in their minds of what I, as their significant other, should be like or how I should act. They have definitely steered me in this direction in hopes of trying to change me. It never worked; I'm single. I think there is a definite correlation. I think Tony's got a very valid point, Ken, from my experience. I think you misunderstood his words and created an overreaching conclusion (ie 'making women out to be overbearing nags.') While you may have struck a great balance with your wife, I think you are probably the exception with this particular issue. --Marc

I am not saying that some women don't try to change their mates, just as I would never say that men never do. It is not a he or she trait. What I am saying is that in four long relationships, it has never happened to me, and I have friends who can make the same claim.

Maybe it's that I am very up front when I get into relationships, and so the other person knows what she is getting into. One of the four stayed for seven years, and two I ended - one because of irreconcilable differences, and the first, a marriage that happened when we both were too young. I think that the success of my relationship with Betsy has had a lot to do with our having very similar interests, as well as a mutual desire not to allow petty difference to come between us. That is something that takes time and serious effort from both sides.

I don't think that I misunderstood Tony's point. I am just curious about where he draws his reference from.

I would agree that having a spouse who has an equal passion for climbing might up the chances of a successful relationship, but I wouldn't count on it. Relationships take a lot of work, patience, tolerance, and mutual respect if they want any chance of a lasting success. I think Bob D. would have some insightful words to say on the subject. He has been happily married for thirty years to a women who doesn't climb, and from what I know about Bob and Lauren, they have very good lines of communication.

Ken Cangi wrote: Tony, Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your wife as hardcore about climbing as you are? If so, then which women are you referring to?

My wife doesn't climb.
Well, I guess she did go twice with me, but she cried one of those times. She is acrophobic.

But she doesn't mind that some of my main partners and friends are female. I knew them first anyway, so they kinda came with the package.

We still struggle for time now and then, when she feels left behind. But when she's busy there is no real problem. She realizes than on some base level that while she looses me to climbing at times, that I also gave up the possibility of climbing with my wife when we married. In that respect, we both made compromises.

Ken Cangi wrote: And about the women-always-want-to-change-men comment, I think it's just a wee bit patronizing to women. I have been with Betsy for almost eleven years, and she has never tried to change me. If you feel that way, the problem is that you aren't communicating very well with your partner. Put some of that responsibility on your own shoulders instead of making women out to be overbearing nags.

Would it be as offensive if I said "Men have a higher need for recreational companionship and women have a higher need for emotional affiliation."

What if I said that men more often site "she changed" as a cause for divorce, whereas women more often site "he won't change." Of course, both of those take a back seat to #1) Money and #2) Sex for both genders.

Go associate with a 'progressive' who believes that there is no general difference between genders then. I studied gender differences for too long to play. And quit trying to stick words like ALWAYS in my posts to make trouble.

Marc, I'm proud to say I've learned my lesson and now have a climbing-betty. I wish i had known then, what i know now.