Tick marks on cracks

Jay,
I would say that if you need a tick mark to reach perfection then you are already climbing beyond your limit. Sure a good tick mark makes climbing easier, but so does preplaced pro, spider mits, and full body stealth suits.

If you need these crutches then maybe you should ask yourself why you are climbing in the first place. Just to prove to others that you have value? Prove that you are a bad a$$ because you can climb a number?

The point is that the desert is a dry place, and many of the harder climbs at IC don't see any moisture. A tic mark can mar the rock for years if not permanently. We are having a serious access issue at Indian Creek, we all need to lighten up our impact if we want to continue climbing there. Although tic marks seem like a small thing, they show a lack of respect for our environment. They say that sending is more important to climbers than the rock.

Kevin Stricker wrote:If you need these crutches then maybe you should ask yourself why you are climbing in the first place. Just to prove to others that you have value? Prove that you are a bad a$$ because you can climb a number?

Ah, the attacks on my climbing motivations have begun.

I don't need to prove anything to anyone. This is true. And by that rationale, I don't need to stop using tick marks because you think I should.

I believe that we should reduce impact in fragile environments. I am not saying that I have used tick marks at IC. I haven't even climbed there in years. I use tick marks at places like Rumney, J-Tree, Squamish, the Gunks, etc. I usually brush them off if they get excessive. I brush off others' tick marks as well as my own at times. I prefer to take a more mature and nuanced stance on the issue, rather than taking a hard-line sanctimonious stance that I then attempt to force on others.

The important thing to remember here is that if you climbed a route with tick marks, you can only claim a pink-point.

Brad, I must be confused. Wouldn't the tick marks (assuming they were pre-placed before the climb) mean you wouldn't get the onsight? Not sure what they have to do with red point/pink point. By the way, does any one even use the term 'pink point' anymore? I have not heard it in awhile.

Sure... I meant that to be tongue-in-cheek. :) On the other hand, I think that the phrase pink-point has its proper place. It's obviously easier to climb a route with the gear preplaced. Especially for me since I pull on it most of the time.

Personally, I don't think there is a debate to be had here. Leaving tick marks on a route when you leave is always lame.

Man, you guys are so awesome I can't even believe it.

Is there even an issue here? Using tick marks is a matter of style but leaving them is poor form and everyone, boulderers, sport climbers, crack climbers, or Hubers should brush them at the end of their session. Leave No Trace.

Well, they don't call it natures crayon for nothing. smearing poo on a cliff just might be the best way to dispose of it in a desert. The UV from the sun will break it down and it will blow away as dust.

Oh and for the people who think that tick marks are "environmentally damaging." which do you think is worse for the environment, a little bit of CaCO3 on the side of a cliff or all of the CO, CO2, NO, NO2, SO2 and other crap your car put into the atmosphere on your way to the creek. I am not saying that ticks arent ugly, and when your are done you should scrub them. But, if you didn't walk or ride your bike to the creek then you should probably shut up.

Bill, your argument is stupid. Two wrongs don't make a right. Going to the Creek might be bad for the air but that doesn't mean you should trash the rock too just because you already polluted. This attitude is how unacceptable exceptions start. If you need to tick you are a fucking fool.

That "Mr Angry" I can agree with, when you are done brush the ticks off, seems simple. My problem is with the people who complain about the environmental impact of tics/chalk (damage to the rock, etc.) while clipping bolts/pins to lower off....this makes no sense to me.

My point is this. If people stopped climbing at IC or any where else in the desert, eventually the chalk will wear off from some environmental factor (probably wind) and this will likely happen before the bolts/pins disappear. Neither one is "right" but both are realities of the sport we engage in, our job as climbers is to minimize our impact as best we can; the balancing act between activity and impact. At least that is the way I see it......

There are areas that are such high impact and have had chalk baked onto the rock for so many years that I would bet that it is permanent. Look at many bolder areas! That is as much an environmental problem as bolts are.

I'm Sorry if my point was unclear. I do not mean to say that since we are all trashing the World by driving all over that it is OK trash everything. I am not putting forth a fuck it attitude, and if it came across that way then my bad. I think that ticks should be scrubbed down when one leaves or when one is on a route where someone forgot to scrub them. When I am on a route with ticks I try to brush them off, no big deal. Nothing to get mad about.

However, there are much bigger problems out there. I would be much more impressed if climbers were as passionate about these issues as they are about ticks on cracks. How many times have you seen one or two people from boulder/SLC/DENVER etc show up to the Creek in an SUV? this is a real problem and a real issue. People should carpool.

I'm surprised no one caught my error: Chalk is Calcium Carbonate not MgCO3!

Poor Johnny, he is no more, what he thought was H20 was H2SO4. Sorry, just came to my mind.

In any respect, yes, don't run your SUV on chalk, you won't be able to tick off your fellow climbers.

Bill Ballace wrote:I'm Sorry if my point was unclear. I do not mean to say that since we are all trashing the World by driving all over that it is OK trash everything. I am not putting forth a fuck it attitude, and if it came across that way then my bad. I think that ticks should be scrubbed down when one leaves or when one is on a route where someone forgot to scrub them. When I am on a route with ticks I try to brush them off, no big deal. Nothing to get mad about. However, there are much bigger problems out there. I would be much more impressed if climbers were as passionate about these issues as they are about ticks on cracks. How many times have you seen one or two people from boulder/SLC/DENVER etc show up to the Creek in an SUV? this is a real problem and a real issue. People should carpool. I'm surprised no one caught my error: Chalk is Calcium Carbonate not MgCO3!

Tick marks on cracks is an easy issue that's fun to pile on about. That's why people are so passionate. Harder issues, like carpooling and shoe rubber marking up rock, people don't get so excited about since they're not going to change their ways.

standard gymnastics chalk is magnesium carbonate. Tums is calcium carbonate. I don't know which you climb with, but ticking up cracks with Tums is WEAK, bra, unless it's the new smooth dissolve mint Tums, which are much more environmental friendly.

Solution:

Stop smoking dope and remember your sequence. No ticking required.

(reposted from rc.com)

hello everybody. my name is paul. i like to climb at indian creek. some people use tick marks at indian creek. i have seen them on climbs from 5.10 to 5.13.

this is stupid.

if you think you need a tick mark, then you are not up to the climb; go home and get stronger. if you don't know why i am mad, you should not be climbing in the desert in the first place.

that is all.

I have mixed feelings on this one... First off and simply put: tick marks are UGLY. I don't think anyone here can argue that. Also, how big does the damn tick need to be in order to grab your attention, especially on the red sandstone at the creek? Enough dragging your chalk nugget a foot out from the crack, put a damn dot there, then brush it when you're done. The thing that frustrates me the most is walking up to a beautiful line you know well, picture perfect, aesthetic, and striking, then seeing little white lines all over the place put there by some visitor and left to be cleaned by someone else. It's just not cool. This isn't complicated, if you can truely appreciate the beauty of a good, naturally created crack, why would you WANT to "deface" it with bright white chalk??? I'm not saying don't use ticks, I'm saying have the respect to simply clean them off so it can look untouched by the next lucky climber. Afterall, that's the beauty of trad climbing, right? "The Natural Line". Maybe I'm crazy.....

People goto IC to get stronger at cracks, learn about crack climbing, enjoy crack climbing. It is/has become an outdoor sport park that uses gear instead of bolts. Telling people to go somewhere else to learn about crack climbing and then come back when they are worthy is petty. Climbing isn't a "locals only" sport.

But I do agree in not using tick marks. If you need beta for a safe send, why can't the time be taken to do some clean aid and/or TR to leave the route as you found it?