BOOTY

Tara offering to return a water bottle to its owner is commendable but does it contradict the long standing concept of finding BOOTY at a crag?

Discuss.

Booty is gear left on a route, not personal items left at the crag.

I figure that it is worth a shot to mention gear found at a crag on MountainProject, in an attempt to help out the rightful owner.
If you get no response, then it's booty. But it's worth a shot.
You have to do what's right.
The wires that I found at The Playground yesterday were left in a crack on a route. That makes them booty, but I'd still like to get them back to the rightful owner if possible, even though I could use some more wires.

if it was left on the ground, try to return it. If it was left on the rock and there isnt a huge bloodstreak next to it, its booty, b b b booty.

you always know when you are getting out climbing enough cause the treasure chest grows.

its been 2 years since my last "almost" new .75 booty joined my rack on the outside corner in BCC. when I pulled it out I yelled "is anyone missing a green cam" and nobody responded so I took it home.

If booty is only that stuff which is purposefully left behind (stuck gear), then what do we call all the other various gear left behind unintentionally?

Jeremy Schlick wrote:If booty is only that stuff which is purposefully left behind ( stuck gear), then what do we call all the other various gear left behind unintentionally?

Failure to do an idiot check. A friend once found a pack left at a parking area. A guy took it off, set it on a rock, and drove off without it. He was overjoyed to get it back after seeing a post about it on Mountain Project: FOUND: Pack and gear at Blob Rock trailhead, Boulder Canyon

I guess I just don't see much difference between dropping your wallet and dropping climbing gear.
Maybe some people think it's OK to keep what you find and not at least try to return it. THey can say whatever they want in their defense, but I still wouldn't let them into my house as guests.

Once, as an average idiot, I lost a nearly-brand-new ice tool on a descent. I drove home unaware of my loss. Fortunately, David Sweet managed to find it, call my wife, and relayed the info to me prior to getting home! What a great feeling it is to have gear returned when you unintentionally leave things behind. This speaks volumes to the character of your fellow climbers! Spread the good karma.

Tony Bubb wrote:I guess I just don't see much difference between dropping your wallet and dropping climbing gear. Maybe some people think it's OK to keep what you find and not at least try to return it. THey can say whatever they want in their defense, but I still wouldn't let them into my house as guests.

Heh, I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. The #1 Camalot I dropped at the Gunks last summer was souvenired by someone who actually posted on this site that he'd found it. But he never responded to my email, much less tried to find the owner at the time. Wonder how he'd have felt if the shoe was on the other foot.

JL

I was descending North Dome Gully once with a friend who is really old, broken and feeble. He was carrying a small haul bag with a bunch of hardware. He slipped and jettisoned the pack to avoid going over a dropoff. A bunch of the gear scattered all over the place. We found what we could and hiked out. Later, back at the coast, I realized that 2 sets of TCU's and the brass nuts were missing.

I figured they were booty for sure. Someone was going to be stoked! But a week later, I went back up there, looked around, and found it all. Horay!

If I find something - even if it's left "on a route" - I try to find the owners of it. I don't need any gear and, frankly, I don't know where that gear has been. If the owner says "keep it", fine. If the owner requests it back, even better. Good karma is your reward.

T

Tony Bubb wrote:I guess I just don't see much difference between dropping your wallet and dropping climbing gear. Maybe some people think it's OK to keep what you find and not at least try to return it. THey can say whatever they want in their defense, but I still wouldn't let them into my house as guests.

Without trying to return Booty, it is theft, Plain and simple. IMHO..

I agree...although sometimes it can be tough to track down the owner, the climbing community is fairly small, and you never know. Also agreed on not needing gear...although I'd probably trust a stopper more than I would a cam.

Speaking of dropping a wallet, I was at the Red last weekend, and walked into the Kroger in Winchester, KY. I was wearing old climbing pants with a big hole in the left pocket. My wallet had been in that pocket, but extricated itself at some point. I noticed the wallet missing at the crag, but was able to mentally place the wallet at the Kroger. Much to my delight, we stopped at the Kroger on the way out; the wallet had been turned in, cash (what little there was in there) and credit cards intact. I am now no longer allowed to say anything but good things about Winchester, KY! :)

Gotta say it's nice hearing some recovery stories. In all, I've had 2 wallets stolen, and 3 taken with no return when lost. I've freed 4 cams and 6 nuts in the days I've spent on the rock. Had a rope bag taken too. I've returned 3 wallets with all cash and ID intact, but I gotta say, it really grates on me when something of mine walks off. Had they asked, I'd be more than happy to help them out, as I've donated over 10 biners and 5 runners to setting safe anchors for people.

As to the safety idea, a reslung cam is just as safe as the one in your rack. There are no micro fractions, as has been disproved by BD many years ago.

Now, would I try and return a shoe at the crag, you bet. Would I make the same effort for a stuck piece? Honestly, can't say I would. Gear on the ground is another story, but BOOTY to me is just that. If you fix a piece and can't get it, sorry mate.

Vending machine rules apply of course. If the machine takes your money, and I get 2 for the price of 1, and you are there, it's yours. If you simply walked away, in my mind, you've indeed walked away from it. If you are packing up and ask me to grab it for you as I'm roping up, no problem at all, it's yours. And if I see it posted, no prob, again, I'd be happy to return it.

Guess it's kinda an odd line in the sand I know.

I lost a cam once in red rocks in the dark, and found a .75 many years later to replace it. what comes around goes around. before the internet I dont remember any "found cam in LCC" ads on any of the bullitin boards around town.

now what to do with the 15 or so bootied stoppers? I'll probably give them to a newbie.

Anywhere near Boulder, I'm keeping all the gear.

Anywhere near the Platte, I'm givin it all back.

Hey, now you got me pulling cobwebs out of the old cap: Once I dropped my wallet at the Long's Area parking lot. A neighbor (non-climber) found it, left a note on my car, and I got it back! Small world.

Other notables: I've found cell phones at crags. Cams & nuts left by parties ahead. Returned 'em. Had a party below return a stuck #3 Friend on Verschneidung in Eldo. Thanks!

Of course, I've had stuff left/dropped at crags...like my daughter's walkie-talkie, dropped 2 hexes & 2 Aliens at Mt. Evans 1st apron and not recovered. Bummer. Oh well.

Hey, knocking out the dust: I did find an old pair of blue slippers in Dream. Another shriveled up pair of Taos somewhere. Another single Mariacher in the creek at Eldo. Another single ripped Mythos I can't remember where. A belt & shoelace left on a tree in the Flatirons. A short, beater, abandoned rope at Silverplume. A friend found a #4 Friend at Sundance. Most are from my pre-internet days. Any claimers?

one of my earliest experiences with rock climbers came exactly 4 years ago. i was returning from a skiing spring break and stopped in boulder canyon to enjoy the last day of the break. we did some scrambling; i wish i remembered what rock, only that it was on the south side of the road. my wallet fell out and over the next few days, i drove up and down bocan 4 times to search for it. it was gone and i was of course bummed.
a few days later, i got an email from somebody- a climber- saying he found my wallet and would return it. i was blown away, a random stranger had discovered my wallet, found my email thru the school, and contacted me to return it all in tact.
i met him in the parking lot of the safeway in boulder, gave him a 6-pack of fat tire (gold to a college freshmen!) and a million thanks. i no longer have our emails but i remember he was a construction worker along the front range. i wonder if he'll read this.
its a great feeling to know that there are still so many good-hearted people in this world and that a lot of them climb!

Mark Nelson wrote:Anywhere near Boulder, I'm keeping all the gear. Anywhere near the Platte, I'm givin it all back.

Mark, that was hilarious!

Confession time... I'm not Catholic, so MP will have to do...

When I was just starting to climb I was taken by a friend to Cat in the Hat (5.6) at Red Rocks. He lead the third pitch (I think) and as I was following I noticed something shiny in the back of a hand/finger crack. He was out of earshot, and I thought "paydirt!" I spent about 10 minutes trying to get three number 8 hexes out of that crack (connected by a biner). I couldn't they were about 1/4" too big to come out. I suppose they fell to their resting place from much farther up the crack. Never having thought about 'climbing ethics' I proceeded to use my nut tool as a chisel and freed the hexes in about five minutes. Once I got to the belay my friend gave me the lecture about being a retard.

Bottom line; those three hexes have never been used on a climb, and I provided a nice little rest for future parties on a semi-classic line. My zeal for some booty overtook common sense. Granted there were huge jugs all around, but none the less... with the exception of biners and passive pro, I have rarely come across gear that is worth salvaging. Not to say it's not out there, it's just not finding its way onto my rack.

MM

ps- anyone missing three #8 hexes? =)