Should Dogs be at the Crags?

opaque ascentionist wrote: I wonder if anyone has brought a cat to the crags, or a ferret maybe.

Sadly (but also somewhat comically), when we were in Indian Creek this fall one of our friends said to keep an eye out for a cat that their campsite neighbors had lost. My guess is that cat is either living the life eating mice, or an unfortunate victim of other members in the food chain.

I've seen a pet rabbit at the turkey tail before. It was on a leash and everything. unbelievable...

Hate dogs at the crag.

If you all wouldn't mind, could you bring more poodles to the crag?

I want to test the flight/fight response & jaw strength in my next G Shep.

My dog is perfect in everyway, and if legal, I will bring her to the crag anytime I wish. In 25 years of hard freaky climbing ALL OVER the U.S., I have never:

1. Been bitten by a dog
2. Seen anyone else bitten by a dog
3. Stepped in dogshit (I can't even remember the last time I saw a dogshit in the trail)
4. Seen a dog shit someplace overly close to the crag(lot's of people shit though)
5. Been out barked so bad I had to leave a crag
6. Seen a dog killed by rockfall, and by the way, people who already hate dogs at the crag and use dog safety as a reason for "no dogs" are full of shit. They just have a thin argument already and need to beef out their reasons, they don't actually care about your dogs safety.
7. Seen a dog almost dead from heat or freezing temps
8. Had a dog ruin even one minute of my crag time

I'm even gonna come right out and say that people who have a "dog at the crags" issue are generally bungholes anyway and probably whine about every other little thing that really doesn't concern them. I'm not saying that what I have not witnessed first hand doesn't happen to others, concerning dogs. But this level of whining, on any subject, is pathetic. I'll also come out and say, I DON"T LIKE KIDS AT THE CRAG, it actually does bug me. BUT, I would never tell a parent not to bring the kids wherever the hell they wan't. If things are really that bad, I'll just leave. Telling other people what to do is just not my style. Telling others to jam their nonsensical issues up their butt though, is totally my style!

P.S.- Mark Nelson, are ya a Marine or what? If so, thanx for your service, and you must get an extra special kick out of this MickeyMouse blather, huh?

The thanks go to my bro, he's Army on, I believe, his 4th or 5th major assignment.

What he did with the 3rd ACR (& the Marines also) in that region of Iraq was a pretty incredible sacrifice; I can't even imagine. He thinks what I'm able to do in the alpine is heroic, but it's not all that big a deal to me. He thinks similar -- what they do is not all that big a deal, but I'd disagree.

They are doing well in Afghanistan, in good company, & had some heavy snow recently. They haven't asked for much, just a note of thanks now & again is cool (though I send them some good bean now & again).

My little brother is an M.P. over there, and my little sister is a Marine. I was in the 82nd Airborne back in the day and missed the 1st Gulf War by a month or so, thank GOD! Tell your bro and his gang to keep their heads down....... And thanks.

This is the subject that just keeps giving. And a word of advice about strange dogs in general. Never pet them on the head.

merk, that couple found their cat. it did try to run away again the next morning. i think they ended up driving into moab to get a flashing LED collar for it.

i totally think dogs should be allowed at the crag, but then i am biased. i have a dog and i will be a veterinarian in a couple years. that being said i also believe there is only room for well behaved dogs at the crag. the crux is that people all have different ideas about what good behavior is (i.e. aggressive dogs, dogs that chase wild life, and habitual barkers do not belong at the crag). the second is that some folks do not take care of their dogs. they don't kick poo off the trail and let their dogs beg.

all of these problems relate to the owner though. a good dog does not happen on its own. it takes some training and luck.

my dog isn't 100%, he begs a little but most people don't mind sharing or shoo him away. he knows the word rope (almost got tagged by a falling rock). he will sleep on the back packs if we do multi pitch routes (ask me if rodents steal my food). he isn't aggressive. he doesn't bark.

i leave him at home when i have to (regulations or it's cold), but it breaks his heart. i would be super sad if falling rocks hurt him. but i think he would rather take the risk than sit at home (same as the rest of you and me).

Good post, bwillem. I'd love to have your dog guard my pack against them damn pikas and marmots.

Yeah bwillem, true story. I had 2 squirrels steal my can of chew from my pack while I was on Center Route at Rincon a few months ago. My girlfriend was belaying so she couldn't stop em. I had left LuLu(my dog) at home so she was no help either against those 2 damned, chew stealing, day ruining, low-down, backstabbing rodents. A good dog sure woulda come in handy. Ever seen a Texan get his chew stolen by squirrels at the crag? It was a hienous day indeed....

I think dogs can be at crags as long as its not too crowded and the dog is more or less well behaved. Dogs can be a nuisance however. One time I was climbing at Hell's Canyon, a sport area in Idaho, I had a dog story: After a go at a route I pulled and flaked my rope at the base. This dog liked to lay atop rope piles, which is kind of lame but no big deal. The owner kept shooing it off my rope and apologizing. The dog then took a shit right atop my rope. Luckily the shit was fairly well consolidated and the very apologetic owner cleaned it off pretty well.
So let's get some things straight: Dogs can be a nuisance. I've seen disruptive dog fights, laying atop ropes, eating people's lunches, the aforementioned shitting incident, etc... So I'm calling Hank out on this one. That said, I don't see any reason NOT to take a dog out to the crag. Dogs are usually way more fun than they are annoying, and Hank has a point: People that get radically indignant about dogs at the crag are the types that take pleasure in their own perceived victimhood.

varmits stole your chew???? wow...i would only expect that in the south. i did have a couple of rats chew through a blister pack to get about 60mg of valium in thailand though.

I love dogs, grew up with four at a time. I love seeing well-behaved dogs at the crag. You can really tell that they have good owners.

Bad dogs and bad dog owners are a different story though. If your dog likes to run all over people's ropes and bark aggressively at people, you know it. Don't bring your crazy mutts to the crag.

Try training the k9 how to act around other people and other dogs for that matter. If you are doing a multi-pitch climb, leave the pooch at the doggie daycare, he can't follow you up!

Hank Caylor wrote: My dog is perfect in everyway

Oh yeah Hank well so is mine. Oh wait that's right LuLu is Goldies mama. No wonder she is perfect in every way!

Dogs rule! Fools drool!

will nesse wrote:I think dogs can be at crags as long as its not too crowded and the dog is more or less well behaved. Dogs can be a nuisance however. One time I was climbing at Hell's Canyon, a sport area in Idaho, I had a dog story: After a go at a route I pulled and flaked my rope at the base. This dog liked to lay atop rope piles, which is kind of lame but no big deal. The owner kept shewing it off my rope and apologizing. The dog then took a shit right atop my rope. Luckily the shit was fairly well consolidated and the very apologetic owner cleaned it off pretty well. So let's get some things straight: Dogs can be a nuisance. I've seen disruptive dog fights, laying atop ropes, eating people's lunches, the aforementioned shitting incident, ect... So I'm calling Hank out on this one. That said, I don't see any reason NOT to take a dog out to the crag. Dogs are usually way more fun than they are annoying, and Hank has a point: People that get radically indignant about dogs at the crag are the types that take pleasure in their own perceived victimhood.

amen. I think many people use dogs as a substitute for children. Either life's situation or desire or whatever. That's fine, and it's their choice. I hate bringing my kids to the crag when I want to climb - it just doesn't work out. I'm fine when I go for them and only for them because I'm giving them the attention they deserve. Otherwise, they get into everyone's stuff or pee all over the place. They are really loud, sometimes stand on the rope and even eat other people's food.... just like a dog. It's really annoying for people who are there to climb. So I don't take my kids to the crag.

Is it possible to own a mongoose? Maybe it's just me, but I think the rattler population is up about 500% from 10 years ago. With your mongoose on patrol, you could belay at ease at any of the arid crags.

I've noticed that too...nothing like the sound of rattling beneath your feet to motivate you to stick a bouldering traverse!

will nesse wrote: One time I was climbing at Hell's Canyon, a sport area in Idaho, I had a dog story: After a go at a route I pulled and flaked my rope at the base. This dog liked to lay atop rope piles, which is kind of lame but no big deal. The owner kept shooing it off my rope and apologizing. The dog then took a shit right atop my rope. Luckily the shit was fairly well consolidated and the very apologetic owner cleaned it off pretty well.

That's pretty funny...I climb a lot in Hell and we have a saying you can't kick the dog so you kick the owner!!

Just a quick word-play on an e-mail I received, but how fitting it is.

How many dogs does it take to clean a sport anchor?

1. Golden Retriever: The sun is shining, the day is young, we've got our whole lives ahead of us, and you're worrying about some stupid quickdraws?
2. Border Collie: Just one. And then I'll replace any bolts that are not up to code.
3. Dachshund: You know I can't reach that stupid hold!
4. Rottweiler: Make me.
5. Boxer: Who cares? I can still play with my squeaky toys in the boulders.
6. Lab: Oh, me, me!!!!! Pleeeeeeeeeze let me clean the anchor! Can I? Can I? Huh? Huh? Huh? Can I? Pleeeeeeeeeze, please, please, please!
7. German Shepherd: I'll clean it as soon as I've led these people away from the cliff-edge, check to make sure I haven't missed any, and make just one more perimeter patrol to see that no one has tried to take advantage of the situation. (this is so true)[these dogs should rule the Earth as far as I'm concerned]
8. Jack Russell Terrier: I'll just clean it while I'm bouncing off the walls and boulders. (how true)!
9. Old English Sheep Dog: Anchor? I'm sorry old chap, but I don't see any anchor!
10. Cocker Spaniel: Why clean it? I can still pee on everyone’s ropes.
11. Greyhound: It isn't moving. Who cares?
12. Australian Shepherd: First, I'll put all the quickdraws in a little circle...
13. Poodle: I'll just blow in the Border Collie's ear and he'll do it. By the time he finishes replacing the bolts, my nails will be dry.

How many cats does it take to clean an anchor?
Cats do not clean anchors. People clean anchors. So, the real question is:
"How long will it be before I can expect some some dinner, and a massage?"