Stigma with staying in hotels?

md3 wrote:

Also consider Airbnb offerings ....a room that hasn't been cleaned with commercial chemicals; etc...

That is a ridiculous statement to make. There is zero reason why the one would imply the other.

I always camp, but only to have that dirt-bag feeling once again if only for a week.

Marc801 wrote:

That is a ridiculous statement to make. There is zero reason why the one would imply the other.

It seems that he is talking specifically about his room-for-rent (and the associated benefits), but a generalization is implied.

I started out as a "gotta camp" type but my partner talked me into doing the hotel thing -- it's certianly the way to go, esp if you can get a decent place for a reasonable price -- it's worth having a warm shower and a soft bed to me, most of the time. Sure, I'll camp if its nice out, but I have spent enough time sleeping in the car at Shelf Rd. in 25*F overnight temps to know that I prefer driving back to town and not shivering through the night! And Vegas is also a good example -- with proper planning, you can get a killer deal on a NICE hotel if youre willing to drive a bit each day.

T Roper wrote:

fuck packing and paying to bring camping gear on a plane, especially when bringing a rack and rope.

Amen. Lots of places it doesn't save you any time or money. Example: With enough advance planning you can usually find a hotel within a few bucks of the price of the camping at Red Rock (Vegas), and then you're not also paying for showers, breakfast, etc... Can even come out ahead with the hotel.

We live in a society of haves and have-nots, and the underlying sentiment is rooted there IMO. I won't delve into that quagmire any further.

I think that to a large degree, the value judgments that people make regarding camping vs. hotel have to do with circumstances. When I was younger, made less money, and spent more time climbing, staying in hotels all the time would have been financially disastrous.

With increasing age and responsibilities, a larger income, and only one climbing trip per year, I choose to spend more of my time and effort climbing, rather than dealing with the logistics of camping. In many climbing areas, especially in Europe, one can rent a gite/cottage that has a fridge and stove; splitting the cost with others makes it surprisingly affordable. My friends and I will primarily shop/cook rather than eat at restaurants, and as a result my "splurges" on climbing vacations are still far cheaper than being a conventional tourist in the same country.

No doubt the shared adventure can also form strong friendships. The bonds forged with my partners over decades don't need any more adventure beyond the climbing at this point. 

- Alex

The reason there's a stigma is because you aren't being true to the spirit of climbing and adventure. It's more like you are going outdoors for a workout, not an experience. Camping is part of the climbing experience, like it or not. That said, it's a free country, but I would expect the "real" climbers to make fun of you.

Tradoholic wrote:

The reason there's a stigma is because you aren't being true to the spirit of climbing and adventure. It's more like you are going outdoors for a workout, not an experience. Camping is part of the climbing experience, like it or not. That said, it's a free country, but I would expect the "real" climbers to make fun of you.

Poppycock!
What a load!

Camping is totally irrelevant to the "climbing experience" or the "true spirit".  Sure they often go hand in hand and sometimes it is necessary to add camping to the climbing equation, but to say camping is a critical component of "real climbing" is just silly.

Tradoholic wrote:

The reason there's a stigma is because you aren't being true to the spirit of climbing and adventure. It's more like you are going outdoors for a workout, not an experience. Camping is part of the climbing experience, like it or not. That said, it's a free country, but I would expect the "real" climbers to make fun of you.

So if you don't camp, you're not a "real climber"? Pretty silly.

Camping is part of the camping experience and climbing is part of the climbing experience. There, I fixed it for you!

FrankPS wrote:

So if you don't camp, you're not a "real climber"? Pretty silly.

Camping is part of the camping experience and climbing is part of the climbing experience. There, I fixed it for you!

Frank, never forget that sport camping is neither.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

Frank, never forget that sport camping is neither.

Well-said, Mark. 

Tradoholic wrote:

The reason there's a stigma is because you aren't being true to the spirit of climbing and adventure. It's more like you are going outdoors for a workout, not an experience. Camping is part of the climbing experience, like it or not. That said, it's a free country, but I would expect the "real" climbers to make fun of you.

Glad you put "real" in quotes to make it clear that it has nothing to do with real climbers. As someone who has spent entire summers doing it, I can certify that there isn't the slightest hint of the true spirit of climbing and adventure in putting up a tent on a graded tent platform next to your parked car, that next to an iron fire place with a water pump and bathrooms a few feet away and some street lights so you don't get lost in the dark. 

The comment might apply to back-country camping, but of course in that case camping is the only game in town and is indeed an integral component of the climbing experience. But developed campgrounds?  Nah.  We used campgrounds because they were the least expensive alternative---and that mattered to us---or because there were the only good options near where we were climbing.   

Man. my outdoor needs to do not end at gripping granite.
The campfire, cooking around it with new and old friends (or, if you're into it, no one at all), waking up to chilled sunrises around cowboy coffees for a morning hike with no reason to get in the car, listening to the wind and maybe rain batter the tent or truck, sleeping under the stars on warm nights, smelling the alpine/desert/forest air.
What I don't like about hotels/motels: They fucking stink, other humans are usually less than tolerable, they're expensive, they don't provide a space to cook your own meals, you HAVE to get in your car to go or do anything, that fucked up carpet always starts swirling and melting. Did I mention they stink?

I also live in a major metropolitan area and have occasional freak-outs when I've been too long in the concrete jungle, so trying to get as far away from anything relatable to civilization can become absolutely tantamount to my climbing trips.

My only outdoor needs are climbing related. I don't understand the concept of backpacking and/or camping for no reason other than going outside. I'll happily camp for a big climb, but I'd never just camp for fun. 

I camp to make access to a kitchen easier and for the dog

Sprinters and campers are basically a hotel

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

Sprinters and campers are basically a hotel

#vanlife

Rgold got the message correctly. The rest of you don't really get it. It's people's opinion and they are entitled to it. The only problem here is that YOU care what other people think about you.

rgold wrote:We used campgrounds because they were the least expensive alternative---and that mattered to us---or because there were the only good options near where we were climbing.   

If I could have afforded it, I would have stayed at the Awhanee for the months I've spent in Yosemite. At Courtright Reservoir I'd have gladly stayed in a Holiday Inn thanks to the hordes of F-15 sized mosquitoes.

Doesn't anyone enjoy camping? I get that certain circumstances (i.e., plane flights) make it more difficult, but if you're on a driving trip, finding a spot on public land is part of the fun; at least to me. To each his/her own. Part of the experience climbing in the Sierras or western deserts is having friends around a campfire (permit permitting etc), cooking a great meal together, enjoying lukewarm beer, etc. This method is infinitely cheaper ($0  vs anything), although money isn't everything. Even in Yosemite, the 1/2 hour drive west out of the park to the relatively tranquil NF is nice. I didn't realize so many people hate camping and "never just camp for fun." (Chris C.) Do whatever makes you happy I guess.

simplyput wrote:

Man. my outdoor needs to do not end at gripping granite.
The campfire, cooking around it with new and old friends (or, if you're into it, no one at all), waking up to chilled sunrises around cowboy coffees for a morning hike with no reason to get in the car, listening to the wind and maybe rain batter the tent or truck, sleeping under the stars on warm nights, smelling the alpine/desert/forest air.
What I don't like about hotels/motels: They fucking stink, other humans are usually less than tolerable, they're expensive, they don't provide a space to cook your own meals, you HAVE to get in your car to go or do anything, that fucked up carpet always starts swirling and melting. Did I mention they stink?

I also live in a major metropolitan area and have occasional freak-outs when I've been too long in the concrete jungle, so trying to get as far away from anything relatable to civilization can become absolutely tantamount to my climbing trips.

Old and new friends over a roll of sushi or in a hot tub can be pretty great to, depending on your mood.

If they stink you're at the wrong ones.

If other humans aren't tolerable that says more about you than other humans.

I've cooked many a meal in a hotel on a camp stove (just don't tell the hotel...)

You certainly don't HAVE to get in your car to do anything, I've been plenty of places you can walk from your hotel to the outdoor adventures, and camped plenty of places you can't. Biking is often fun and refreshing, and hitchhiking can be a damn lot of fun (or a lot of antifun...) too...

Just throwing those out there...

I used to travel for work doing my horse show photography thing. If I could not stay on the show grounds I would get a hotel/motel and try to get something decent. Even in a nice place I have a hard time sleeping. many times I have bailed on the room @ insomnia 2am and crawled into the van to get a few hours of real sleep.  heck when I visit family I sleep in the van.  Last summers climbing/photo trip was 7 1/2 weeks. we paied for 3 campsites. can't imagin what that would have cost in hotel rooms...   I totally get the not wanting to bring camping shit when flying.  Certainly mile 13 campground in vegas sucks.  last time we were there(2004) we tried to find a room in vegas on the night we flew in. It was late and we were wasted.  Everything seemed to be either sleazy by the hour or big bucks. Certainly now with the smart phone  you can find a room on the fly much much easier.  that night we ended up finally giveing up and driveing out to mile 13 and crashing on the ground without putting up the tent. Wind almost blew us back into town... The only room we had on that trip was at the Oasis between vegas and Zion and that was great. Clean and $21.00 for the night.  many areas though you will be completly missing out on the whole scean( conditions on the mountain etc) if you are staying in town in a room VS liveing on the forest service land with the rest of the climbing bums...