Type: Sport, 40 ft
FA: Jim Redo, bolted and modified by Mark Rolofson & John Baldwin
Page Views: 1,714 total · 9/month
Shared By: Jim Redo on Oct 27, 2003
Admins: Leo Paik, John McNamee, Frances Fierst, Monty, Monomaniac

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First of all, let me say that I did not chip this route. I did not equip this route. It was an open project, and I just free climbed this route. I re-named the route to "Palm Pilot" from "Victoria's Secret". It ain't no secret, boys, ya chipped a hold. This route is on the far left side of the crag left of an open corner. It is an extremely overhanging arete.

Scramble up a 3rd class slab for 30 feet to the first bolt. Clip another bolt and move out left to a ledge where you can sit. The climbing basically starts here. Varied climbing for 2 bolts brings you to the first crux. Powerful slaps and a pinch to a chipped horn. It ain't over. One very big move and a bit of 5.12 bring you to the anchor. 24 moves...not a path.


8 bolts to a 2 bolt anchor. There is a stray bolt next to the 7th bolt.


Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
Congrats on the send Jimmy. It's too bad about the chipped jug but when it falls off, there will be an even harder route. Until then, it's an impressive line all the same. Oct 30, 2003
Who equipped this route and when? 13d hmmm, will probably need a couple ascents to confirm this -- good job. Oct 30, 2003
Jim Redo
Jim Redo  
In Rossiter's guide it states that Mark Rolofson and John Baldwin equiped the route. When working on this route I brought both Robyn Erbesfield and Mike Downing to the route and both got on the route and agreed .13d. I believe Peter Beal has also been on this route and thought it was hard. I agree we do need some ascents of this route to confirm the grade. I would be totally psyched If people tried/ did the route. I think all routes need a confirmation of grade. Oct 30, 2003
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
I have been on this route and it seemed pretty hard. Unless more holds were improved after I was on it, I doubt it will be seriously downgraded. I remember the move off the jug as being particularly tough, to the point that I checked out the arete going straight up. I quikcly lost interest due to the modified hold.

I think ultimately, when the jug goes (it's glued on-reattached- and chipped in pretty deep) that going directly up the arete will provide a pretty solid 5.14 route. Time will tell. Oct 31, 2003
It seems to me that ONLY a solid 5.14 climber should comment on whether the route will stand at 13d. One tends to overgrade when grading at the top limit of his/her redpoint level, because of having limited experience in this realm.

--Rob Smale Oct 31, 2003
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
Rob, I have plenty of experience on 13+ and 14 routes. Most of my FAs have maintained their grades, all of which you are free to check out to see what I can climb. I think I'm as qualified as anyone to judge Jim's route. I stand by my original belief that the grade will stand. If another consensus emerges, fine, nobody's perfect.

Concerning the "solid 5.14 climber", I can cite several individuals including Dave Graham, Fred Nicole, Axel Franco, etc. who have rated new routes and seen them downgraded. It's all part of the game. Amazingly life goes on. Oct 31, 2003
Jim Redo
Jim Redo  
Peter, thanks for the support. Also just to let you know, there are no new holds on this route since you have been on it. As far as the grading goes. It's not like I just climbed a few 5.12+ routes in my life and did a route and called it 5.13d. I've done quite a few 5.13c's and this felt harder to me. I trained very hard to do this route and got some qualified input from others who have been on it. That's got to be good for something. Nov 1, 2003
Rob Smale, If Jimmy Redo says the route felt like .13d there is a good chance it is.

Saying that only a solid .14 climber should be grading a route thats .13d a load of crap! So, by that logic, a solid 12 climber should not rate a 11d.....or a solid 5.11 climber shouldn't dare rate a route 5.10d.

Nice send Jimmy! Nov 3, 2003
Tony B
Around Boulder, CO
Tony B   Around Boulder, CO
First of all, there are not any solid 5.14 climbers. At least in the tradition I was 'raised'. To be solid, you wouldn't be falling off of them, right?

Since it makes the news when anybody on-sights a 5.14a (maybe 10 people, ever?) and nobody's on-sighted 14b yet, to the best of my knowledge, then there are not *any* people solid at that grade.

Until there are, can we not have any 13d's?

Hmmm... I've on-sighted a lot of 11s, but I'm only 'solid' up to maybe 10d. But funny as it seems, I still seem to know a 12a when I am on one. Nov 3, 2003
Having climbed a few of Jimmy's easier routes (.12b,.12c, etc), I would say that he does not give soft ratings, period. Nov 3, 2003
Stefan Griebel
Boulder, Colorado
Stefan Griebel   Boulder, Colorado
I agree with Greaser's comment. Has anyone else been on The Lorax? Holy Smokes! Nov 3, 2003
The facts: Jimmy's route probably is 13+ .

The aging climber from New England (Pete Beal) does have high-end redpoint experience replete with the much-loved prerequisite elite-climber attitude.

However, the route is chipped, 'nuf said! Nov 5, 2003
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
You might add the fact that people who make comments about others without identifying themselves probably shouldn't comment on attitude. Nov 6, 2003
Richard M. Wright
Lakewood, CO
Richard M. Wright   Lakewood, CO
AC's impotent comment registered at minus ten on the richter scale. Perhaps, as in dealing with so many problems of childhood, it's best just to ignore them. Or to paraphrase Val Kilmer, having turned his back to another impotent AC, "AC? Are you still here? You may go now." Nov 6, 2003
How 'bout summarete?
Been done? Speculated at "only" 5.13 in the books, so if not, why not? Looks really hard!
Thanks in adv. for any info! Sep 19, 2010
This is a surprisingly fun route with only one (albeit egregious) chipped hold. Definitely worthwhile if you're looking for a power-endurance 8b in a nice, quiet setting. Feb 23, 2013
Mark Rolofson
Boulder, CO
Mark Rolofson   Boulder, CO
Here is some history about this route: I bolted this extremely overhung route with John Baldwin in Fall 1996. Where most of the route was climbable, there was one blank section. The project sat there for 2.5 years. Had someone done it in its natural state, I would have not minded them renaming it. In Spring 1998, I returned & manufactured one jug, because I felt the route would not go free without it. I was able to free all the moves, even though I could barely do the campus move off a crimp around the 6th bolt. We named the climb "Victoria's Secret". I did not put the energy into redpointing the route & walked away from it not to return. It is quite difficult.

Congratulations to Jimmy Redo for the first free ascent (redpoint) of the climb. Considering the route was bolted, cleaned, & the moves had been done, I would have appreciated it if he kept our route name. At the very least, he should have given us credit for equipping & preparing the line. Apr 22, 2017
jason seaver
Estes Park, CO
jason seaver   Estes Park, CO
Good share, Mark.
The "manufacturing of the jug" part makes me not care about your opinion. I think you've done enough damage.

What if someone had further "manufactured" that jug? Would they then be entitled to rename the route?

Who gives a shit?! You guys defiled this crag by making it "freeable" by you at the time. Your mom must be proud. Apr 22, 2017
Mark Rolofson
Boulder, CO
Mark Rolofson   Boulder, CO
Very easy to criticize, Jason. Not that your opinion really matters to me. There are no shortage of zealots & armchair quarterbacks. Have you climbed the route? Clearly Jimmy Redo was proud enough of his send to post & rename the route.

In 45 years of climbing & hundreds of first ascents, I have manufactured only a handful of holds. It isn't something I take lightly. I prefer to put up 100% natural lines & 99% of my routes are. That said, I came to realize that the rock has some limitations or blank sections with no features. I am a minimalist in the sense that when I have manufactured a hold, it is to link existing holds. Never more than two holds on a route & generally only one hold. If there is any sort of hold, I leave the route for when I get stronger or for someone better than me to climb. There are numerous examples of this, including Shine in Clear Creek & Carnage at Shelf Road, that I was not good enough to climb but knew would go. Those climbs have holds, just not very good ones.

The last hold I manufactured with a drill was in 2000. I have refrained from such activity since. I have modified or created a few holds with hand tools like a piton hammer & a nut tool since then. Usually on quarried rock. You wouldn't be able to guess which holds. This is often what can be called aggressive & creative cleaning.

The hold on this climb was manufactured 19 years ago. Such tactics were occasionally employed throughout the 1990s. I was not the first or nor the most active at chipping or manufacturing holds. I did not manufacture entire routes, just a few holds to connect weaknesses of natural holds.

I visited Buoux, France in 1990 & climbed numerous routes with one drilled pocket in a blank section. These are beautiful lines, most of which would never go free without. The rock is smooth enough, it isn't just a matter of just being a better climber.

As for Palm Pilot (Victoria's Secret), rather than bitch about what happened 19 years ago, you should do the crux without the manufactured jug. That is, if you can. Otherwise, shut up & stop giving me shit. Apr 30, 2017