I Hate Slash Grades

GAH! Why do we need slash grades?! We already have so many grades! In the basic Yosemite decimal system, we have so many freaking grades already! 

Let's break down how many already exist:

Classes: 1-4 = 4 grades

Fifth Class Grades: 5.0 to 5.15 = 16 grades 

Plus or Minus Grades: These normally start appearing around 5.6, so let's start there. -6 to +15 = 18 grades

Letter Grades: These start at 5.10. So 5.10a to 5.15D = 24

Total: 62

Okay, sure, there are a handful of grades that no one uses, like 5.15+, but still, common!!! Why do we need more grades than 62? It's ridiculous and drives me up a wall, unfortunately, figuratively. Down with slash grades! 

Counter arguments:

• Grading is hard and some routes are clearly one grade and others are not. Sometimes you climb a crack and go yep, that's 5.10b. Other times you're like I dunno man, and you end up grading it 5.10- or 5.10 or whatever (which are the trad equivalent of slash grades). When the consensus is there's no consensus it's best to build that ambiguity into the grade as the alternative is to eeny meeny miny mo your grade. 
• Sometimes a route is of different difficulty for different heights, so the route could be 10a for my tall ass and 10b for most people. Grading it 10a/b would be reasonable. 

VI,WI5+,M17-,5.14-c/d,V16/17,A6+++++

Sage Bedell wrote:

I don't have an issue with a regular fifth-class grade like 5.11. I agree you need ambiguity, and that's why I included it in my list of the existing 62 grades. I don't know why you need the 5.10a/b grade when the 5.10- grade already exists. 

5.10- is a slash grade though. 5.10- = 5.10a/b. It's two ways of saying the same thing. Seems like sport climbers prefer slash grades and traddies prefer the minus, flat, and plus grades? 

So is it the idea of slash grades that you hate or the presentation of the slash grades? If sport climbers moved to use the minus, flat, and plus grades instead do you think that would be better? If so, why?

For what it's worth I see a lot of confusion with the trad style ones. People thinking 5.10+ means 5.10d, thinking that 5.10- means 5.10a and not having any idea what 5.10 flat means seems common. So the slash grades seem good for clarity. 

I don't have an issue with a regular fifth-class grade like 5.11. I agree you need ambiguity, and that's why I included it in my list of the existing 62 grades. I don't know why you need the 5.10a/b grade when the 5.10- grade already exists.

Why do we need two different ways to say the same thing? This whole conversation is pedantic, but I don't understand why we need the 9/10, 9/10a, 10a/b, 10c/d, 10d/11a, 10/11, 11a/b, 11b/c, 11c/d, 11d/12a, 11/12, 12a/b, 12c/d, 12d/13a, 12/13, 13a/b, 13b/c, 13c/d, 13d/14a, 13/14, 14a/14b, 14b/c, 14c/d, 14d/15a, 14/15, 15a/b, 15b/c, 15c/d  = 28 on top of the existing 62 grades? Do we need 90 different grades to express rocks?? GAH!

If slash grades cause you angst, just take the lower grade. Problem solved. 

Sage, the -/even/+ grades came around before the letter grades. The letter grade subdivisions were a later introduction. "Slash grades" are often just a straight conversion from the -/even/+ grades to letter grades as Ricky said, not so much an actual separate grade. Occasionally slash grades are used intentionally to say "if you can span this move/fit this box/etc." then a grade is "x" and if you can't, then it's "y". Many times you'll see these as more than a letter grade apart e.g. 10d/11c or something similar. 

Overall, I'd say you're probably overthinking it. Grades are a spectrum and a fairly BS one at that. 10b isn't generally that meaningfully different than 10a. The same is true at the top end despite the significantly higher time investment spent on climbs at that level, that's why we see so many top-end climbs get an FA and then see someone else come in and propose a different grade (Sleeping Lion, Bibliographie, Box Therapy, Sleepwalker recently, etc) - styles make match-ups, sometimes you're feeling great, sometimes conditions are atrocious, etc. Consistent fidelity at the letter grade level is a bit of a misnomer for exactly the reasons you mention - the idea that there's a consensus at the 1/nth subdivision of difficulty is just not even remotely realistic.

P.s. don't go on 8a.nu. They don't allow slash grades, but they do have you choose "soft", "even", and "hard" for each grade when you log a route. Imagine every letter grade is subdivided into 3 more sectors. Silly, right?

Frank Stein wrote:

If slash grades cause you angst, just take the lower grade. Problem solved. 

Hell, spend some time at an old school area like Seneca Rocks, and you’ll hear the old guys refer to climbs only by their flat grade “Helter Skelter is a 10”

Sage Bedell wrote:

In the basic Yosemite decimal system, we have so many freaking grades already! 

Let's break down how many already exist:

Classes: 1-4 = 4 grades

Fifth Class Grades: 5.0 to 5.15 = 16 grades 

Spoken like someone who has never climbed 4.12+

Collin H wrote:

Spoken like someone who has never climbed 4.12+

4.12+ is just an angry 4.13a

how long until 5.11a/b+ which of course would be different than 5.11

if slash grades give you angst smoke some damn weed and relax. 

Were it not for semantics, I'm afraid we might eventually run out of things to argue about. Keep up the good work, Sage.

"The number of climbs between grades is approximately the same as the number within the grade above, or within the grade below." Or something like that. Steve Roper? I heard it somewhere, and I concur. Doesn't matter how many grades there are.

Just climb

Jared E wrote:

Just climb

This.

Jared E wrote:

Just climb

I concur too.

I used to agree with this, but I've since converted to the slash grade because grades are not objective. In fact, I think we should take slash grades further than one notch on the grade scale. For example, the boulder problem Round Room in LCC. It's about V4 if you have 6 ft or more of reach, it's about V6/7 for shorter folks. Clearly, the grade should be V4/7. Or the sport route Zealot in the Utah Hills. I got it very quickly and would probably call it 12c. I know much stronger, albeit shorter climbers, who have never stuck the giant crux move and think it's solid 5.13. Clearly, this route should be graded 5.12c/13b. 

How does that make you feel? 

So if the temperature is 32.5 what is it?  32 or 35?  It only makes sense that there would be routes that fall on the edge of grades, or are different grades for different heights.  Grading is a spectrum, frankly I think that there should be MORE slash grading, not less.

It’s possible this photo explains what’s happening with the person who started this thread. 

Jared E wrote:

Just climb

I can't climb its raining lol