Descending on 6.0 static line

Obligatory YGD but got a quick question if anyone is willing to answer.

Is it possible to do a single 60m rap on a 6.0 static line. Retrieving rope doesn't matter, just if shit hits the fan could I somehow jerryrig something to descend with some prussiks and what not.

What's it rated for and made out of? If it's strong enough, sure. 

Yes, it's possible, I've rapped on a Beal Backup Line (5mm) before. The big thing is getting enough friction, if you are rapping with a standard ATC you'll need to get a bit creative to get enough friction. A canyoneering device (Imlay CRITR, etct) will have higher friction settings.

If you are bringing a 6.0 for that purpose, maybe try it out on a 10ft drop somewhere close to home before you find yourself needing it in an emergency.

Prusiks seen like a worse idea, because if you are bouncing on your descent and the rope is across a sharp edge, you could risk cutting it.

What happened when you hung a length of the rope you are going to use off a low branch and used a Munter to practice rappel?

Grivel scream. Enough said.

Gregory Bunting wrote:

Yes, it's possible, I've rapped on a Beal Backup Line (5mm) before. The big thing is getting enough friction, if you are rapping with a standard ATC you'll need to get a bit creative to get enough friction. A canyoneering device (Imlay CRITR, etct) will have higher friction settings.

If you are bringing a 6.0 for that purpose, maybe try it out on a 10ft drop somewhere close to home before you find yourself needing it in an emergency.

Prusiks seen like a worse idea, because if you are bouncing on your descent and the rope is across a sharp edge, you could risk cutting it.

BD 6.0 static, crazy stuff.dont think it's pliable enough to feed into a atc

Edelrid Rap Line Protect, Reverso with cord through both slots, and a VT hitch tied with https://www.ropelitellc.com/product-page/micro-hitch-cord does the trick at 70kg with a 10kg pack. Would certainly advise gloves. Might be able to get away with a supermunter in a pinch, but I’d definitely try it whilst backed up and only use in an emergency situation. 

If you using an atc, would recommend trying 2 lockers in there to increase friction.

Also Just curious, what kind of shit hitting the fan means you gotta rap a 6.0 line with Prussiks?

Shawn McGirr wrote:

BD 6.0 static, crazy stuff.dont think it's pliable enough to feed into a atc

Agreed - that BD static is like wire

I do it often with a 6mm Dyneema-cored, technora/polyester blend covered rope (in the pic, with a spliced eye, which is key for rataining strength).  I have some prototype Sticht plate-like devices I've made specifically for skinny rope.  Hoping to have a device on the market soon: just need one more prototype to test.

Also talking with a rope maker about a similar 6mm rope optimized for climbing use.  Coming in the near future, to pair with the friction plate (I hope).  Here's the design progression so far: lots of 3d prints just to get shape, configuration, and slot lengh right.

Ben Zartman wrote:

I do it often with a 6mm Dyneema-cored, technora/polyester blend covered rope (in the pic, with a spliced eye, which is key for rataining strength).  I have some prototype Sticht plate-like devices I've made specifically for skinny rope.  Hoping to have a device on the market soon: just need one more prototype to test.

Also talking with a rope maker about a similar 6mm rope optimized for climbing use.  Coming in the near future, to pair with the friction plate (I hope).  Here's the design progression so far: lots of 3d prints just to get shape, configuration, and slot lengh right.

You have my attention!  However, I would like to offer two thoughts. The first is that on long rappels, the needed friction could vary widely, which is the benefit of a horned figure eight.  The second is that a little wear could cause a significant change in friction.  If the device is steel, then I would probably get one.  If it's aluminum, then the size vs wear ratio would be a no-go for me.

In answer to the OP, look at the Z rappel as illustrated in this article.

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/adding-friction-to-a-rappel

A “super” munter or “no twist” munter hitch will likely work just fine for OP’s application.  

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/the-no-twist-munter-hitch-rappel 

When I bring a Pur Line for emergency rappels, the only other items I bring with me are a harness and small HMS carabiner.  The Grivel Plume HMS carabiner would probably be ideal, but is hard to find in the US.

It would be nice to have an optimized rappel device (like the prototypes Ben is working on) for planned rappels and where you care more about rappel speed or wear on the rope sheath, but Munter hitches are good at getting you to the ground safely with minimal carry weight.

Mike Gibson wrote:

You have my attention!  However, I would like to offer two thoughts. The first is that on long rappels, the needed friction could vary widely, which is the benefit of a horned figure eight.  The second is that a little wear could cause a significant change in friction.  If the device is steel, then I would probably get one.  If it's aluminum, then the size vs wear ratio would be a no-go for me.

Yeah, I'm using aluminum for working prototypes, but want to do either stainless steel or Titanium (the very first test model was Ti).  Ti would be costly, but it doesn't heat up like aluminum does, and is impervious to corrosion as well as being far more wear-resistant, while being lots lighter than steel.  Once I have the design sorted, I'll be able to shop for quotes on different materials.  The model with the carabiner hole can also progress-capture in "guide mode" style.  Kind of like a Kong slide that you don't have to feed into from the end.  No release under load, though.

Ben Zartman wrote:

...  Ti would be costly, but it doesn't heat up like aluminum does

That "heat up" bit is an interesting point.  I have to wonder how that small of a device would dissipate enough heat on a two hundred foot rappel, or would it turn into a branding iron.

I routinely rap on a 6mm Mammut rap line.  NBD with an atc. I usually rap on two strands but if I was to rap on a single strand I would simply add a second biner. 

Mike Gibson wrote:

That "heat up" bit is an interesting point.  I have to wonder how that small of a device would dissipate enough heat on a two hundred foot rappel, or would it turn into a branding iron.

Especially a device made of titanium with the rope running on the same tiny surface area, since "titanium is not ideal for applications where rapid heat dissipation is crucial, as it may lead to heat buildup".

Mike Gibson wrote:

That "heat up" bit is an interesting point.  I have to wonder how that small of a device would dissipate enough heat on a two hundred foot rappel, or would it turn into a branding iron.

Rapping as fast as I dare to for 100,'  I can still hold the titanium plate in my hand without discomfort.  My Alu figure 8 would be almost too hot to touch.  I think the concerns of Ti retaining heat only matter with huge temps--not the small amount generated by friction with a rope.

Still doing tests, though.

Ben Zartman wrote:

Rapping as fast as I dare to for 100,'  I can still hold the titanium plate in my hand without discomfort.  My Alu figure 8 would be almost too hot to touch.  I think the concerns of Ti retaining heat only matter with huge temps--not the small amount generated by friction with a rope.

Still doing tests, though.

Sounds great, Ben!

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_EU/stories/experience-story-qc-lab-can-a-hot-belay-device-melt-my-rappel-slings/

Carolina wrote:

If you using an atc, would recommend trying 2 lockers in there to increase friction.

Also Just curious, what kind of shit hitting the fan means you gotta rap a 6.0 line with Prussiks?

     

When my main rope burns up after being smitten by the gods and I drop my ATC