Auto block used as rap device...

Title is the long and short of it. My climbing partner had a brain fart and omitted their ATC from their rap system. They ended up descending with an auto block wrapped 3 times around both rope strands and connected to the belay loop. Nothing else.

The descent was very slow and they thought something was wrong but didn't realize until they came down and I was able to look at it.

Hoping people will put their 2 cents in on how exactly this could have failed, why it didn't and any other insights.

Probably came down in a series of short jerks, releasing and catching each time? 

A hard grab would likely have produced total failure and rapid descent until rope burn forced a release and then maybe it would catch again. Maybe.

Bloody lucky.

Why not use a Munter for the descent?

Daniel Joder wrote:

Why not use a Munter for the descent?

The issue was not having forgotten or lost access to the rappel device but rather having forgotten that it was supposed to be a part of the system at all. The choosing of a munter hitch would have required the recognition that an alternative method of descent would have been needed, which I don't think happened.

In this scenario how would you recommend using a Munter if it had occurred to them?

I can see how this could happen if you are very used to setting up an auto block back up on every rappel.  Brain fart for the win.  Losing focus of the primary task/system in favor of the secondary or back up system happens in other aspects of life too.

Your friend got really lucky. It likely only held because they were jerkily applying force, not really using the friction hitch as a way to descend, only as a rope grab. Similar to a microtrax or something similar repeatedly being defeated. At least that's my theory.

Good example of why to pre-rig rappels with inexperienced partners! Scary stuff.

Ah, ok. I reread your post and now I understand. Sorry, I went through it too fast and had the idea that they had simply forgotten their ATC, not that they actually had it but forgot to use it.
First, that sounds like a pretty huge brain fart to “forget” to attach the ATC but remembering the third hand back up. This is the first time I have ever heard of this failure mode and glad he/she made it down ok. Assuming I have the facts correct now, I would say it could be chalked up to the lack of enough rappel experience to build up the appropriate rappel habit patterns.
So, to your question of how could this actually work and not fail? Well, if the wall isn’t too steep, I could see a person basically batmanning their way down, sliding the auto block along, and perhaps occasionally letting it cinch up and resting on it as necessary. Do you think that might have happened? (If the wall was dead vertical or overhanging, that would make this method pretty damn difficult and awfully self-critiquing, if not fatal.)

Munter: a separate topic, but this is good to have in your bag of tricks if you forget or drop your rap device. It can put some twists in the rope but it will get you down. I actually had to do this a couple of weeks ago. Remember to load the Munter in your big locking HMS biner in such a way that the rope sliding through doesn’t accidentally unlock the gate. 

Climbing Folly wrote:

In this scenario how would you recommend using a Munter if it had occurred to them?

With a carabiner on the belay loop and the two strand munter running through it as anyone would rap with a munter.

Daniel Joder wrote:

...Do you think that might have happened? (If the wall was dead vertical or overhanging, that would make this method pretty damn difficult and awfully self-critiquing, if not fatal.)

Munter: a separate topic, but this is good to have in your bag of tricks if you forget or drop your rap device. It can put some twists in the rope but it will get you down. I actually had to do this a couple of weeks ago. Remember to load the Munter in your big locking HMS biner in such a way that the rope sliding through doesn’t accidentally unlock the gate. 

Yeah they were pretty dead vertical and it seemed like they had the thing fully loaded in spurts while needing to use the wall as leverage to help take tension off to slide it down.

Appreciate you elaborating on the Munter - that is essentially what I was imagining but am always open to new technique.

Also FWIW this is a very experienced individual and I also take accountability for not having verbally confirmed the system and plan beforehand.

Ok, I know that I'm going to get 'flamed' for saying this, but will do so anyway. I'm an old 'crusty' and like to keep things simple. I believe that the more complicated things are--the more 'steps' one takes or the more 'pieces' in the system, the more opportunities there are for 'brain farts'. Belay and rappel stances, often small and crowded, very frequently are the locus for such things. Specifically, while 'auto-blocs' , 'third hands', etc can be worthwhile safety options, they also do add a significant complication into an already risky situation--another step ( or series of steps) to do,  additional pieces of gear in the system ( and often literally in the way of being able to observe your rap set-up), something else to think about--and potentially distract you from taking a crucial step.
So, all this is the background for my feeling that while third-hands, etc. can be valuable, even essential, in certain circumstances, they are not really required for every person on every rappel. In this case, we haven't been told all the relevant information---was this person the first one down, was s/he an experienced rappleler or not, was the rap low-angle and straightforward, or, maybe, steep and or diagonal, one or multiple rappels,  was the stance/ anchor 'crowded'--in terms of space, the amount of stuff clipped into the anchors, the ability to easily observe what was happening with the ropes. All these, and others, are circumstances that need to be considered when deciding whether or not it is appropriate to add further complicating factors, such as third hands, into the particular rappel set-up. And, pre-rigging isn't necessarily the solution; but instead, again depending on all the circumstances, may just add further 'mess' and complications.

I have no doubt that many will soon post up to strongly disagree, but those are my opinions, accept them or not.

Alan Rubin wrote:

Ok, I know that I'm going to get 'flamed' for saying this, but will do so anyway. I'm an old 'crusty' and like to keep things simple. I believe that the more complicated things are--the more 'steps' one takes or the more 'pieces' in the system, the more opportunities there are for 'brain farts'. Belay and rappel stances, often small and crowded, very frequently are the locus for such things. Specifically, while 'auto-blocs' , 'third hands', etc can be worthwhile safety options, they also do add a significant complication into an already risky situation--another step ( or series of steps) to do,  additional pieces of gear in the system ( and often literally in the way of being able to observe your rap set-up), something else to think about--and potentially distract you from taking a crucial step.
So, all this is the background for my feeling that while third-hands, etc. can be valuable, even essential, in certain circumstances, they are not really required for every person on every rappel. In this case, we haven't been told all the relevant information---was this person the first one down, was s/he an experienced rappleler or not, was the rap low-angle and straightforward, or, maybe, steep and or diagonal, one or multiple rappels,  was the stance/ anchor 'crowded'--in terms of space, the amount of stuff clipped into the anchors, the ability to easily observe what was happening with the ropes. All these, and others, are circumstances that need to be considered when deciding whether or not it is appropriate to add further complicating factors, such as third hands, into the particular rappel set-up. And, pre-rigging isn't necessarily the solution; but instead, again depending on all the circumstances, may just add further 'mess' and complications.

I have no doubt that many will soon post up to strongly disagree, but those are my opinions, accept them or not.

Auto locking rappel devices like the Smart Alpine, Gigajul, and Alpine Up are sweet and solve this problem nicely. Safety of a third hand without the faff. I don't know why such devices aren't more popular and why there isn't more investment from industry in such devices. 

Because there are good enough solutions, and knowledge is still more important than devices (which is the *ahem* crux of this discussion at hand)

Climbing Folly wrote: …FWIW this is a very experienced individual 

WHAAAAT? Holy crap, that was one messy brain fart  

and I also take accountability for not having verbally confirmed the system and plan beforehand.

Generous of you but can’t say that discussing the prevention of this issue would EVER be a topic I would bring up, at least with anyone I trusted to belay me. ymmn…

Don't you, like, look at your rapell device before committing? I seem to recall something like this happening in Arnold.  

philip bone wrote:

Don't you, like, look at your rapell device before commiting? I seem to recall something like this happening in Arnold.  

No mention of it being mulitpitch, nor leaving gear and lowering

One could say: maybe if they hadn’t done the third hand hitch, they would not have forgotten to connect their rappel device.

But maybe they would have forgotten the rappel device anyway, leaned back, and plummeted to Earth. There’s no way to know.

They had to do two things to set up their rappel, only did one, but got to the bottom healthy anyway. Task failed successfully? Whether this is a condemnation or confirmation of the value of a third hand will be in the eye of the beholder.

The brain fart seems understandable, but this part I find hard to believe.

The descent was very slow and they thought something was wrong but didn't realize until they came down and I was able to look at it.

People make mistakes, but not being able to identify this particularly obvious mistake on their own, until after they came down (and possibly needing help from another person) is not what I would consider “normal”.

“Pre-rigging“ or “stacking” rappel devices is the common method for ensuring each person’s rappel setup gets checked by another person.   If you had done this, you probably would have caught your partner’s mistake and prevented this from occurring.

 https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/the-benefits-of-the-pre-rigged-rappel

I know people make all sorts of mistakes (I certainly have) but this one strains the imagination.  I'm glad it didn't end in tragedy.  Is your partner new to outdoor climbing?  I honestly can't imagine an experienced climber making this mistake, unless serious adverse conditions played a role (things like hypothermia or being super dehydrated, etc.).  I'll be honest.. if my partner did this I would seriously question whether I would ever climb with them again.  If he/she is a new climber, it's a bit more understandable and a very lucky learning moment.    

^ You're right about that. It was a cheap lesson, unlikely to receive an encore.

philip bone wrote:

Don't you, like, look at your rapell device before committing? I seem to recall something like this happening in Arnold.  

What was that? I'm most curious. 

So you've put the autoblock on first, then pulled a loop of slack through it to thread the rap device of choice. Makes doing so quite a bit nicer at a cramped stance or with a lot of rope weight hanging below you. Then the tired and distracted brain fart happens and you forget step 2.

You could forget to put your autoblock on after attaching your rap device, and the brain fart wouldn't be anywhere even remotely as alarming. 

Hm.