hard bouldering vs hard route climbing - is there a differnce?

haven't posted to this forum before, my goal is to improve my climbing technique and core strength which i think will aid in improving technique (in contrast to focusing on gaining more finger strength or raw pulling power). i keep hearing that the way to get better in many areas is hard bouldering, but it's not an option for me. i broke my leg doing that and it affected my life very negatively, having two small children, so i don't want to expose myself to that risk anymore. my options at the gym that i'm willing to do are the kilter board (short falls even from the top), or the roped routes. i have been substituting "getting on project routes on top rope or autobelay" for "hard bouldering" but am wondering if i am missing something by doing this.

specifics that may be relevant: i've just recently started really trying routes that i know i can't do at the gym, which for me is 5.12. i've onsighted only one such route, usually the difficulty level is 3-hang it about 2/3 up the route before not having any more power to keep going. for 5.12- routes, i have onsighted three such routes, and will usually 3-hang a little farther or all the way up. for 5.11+, i have onsighted many such routes and will do so ~40% of the time. a 5.11+ route will feel like a 5.12- or 5.12 if it's not in my style. 5.12, 5.12-, and 5.11+ not in style will have multiple consecutive moves which feel like they are at my limit, and i'll often have to figure out the sequence over a few tries. this description is just to give a context for how difficult i find the moves, not how my workout is structured, so i am not just doing a couple hangs and then giving up.

here's my question: if i use routes like this instead of the bouldering wall, is that a fair substitute? the routes are usually way less steep than the bouldering wall, and often will have a much more basic terrain style than the bouldering wall. am i missing the benefit of limit bouldering by subbing in work on such routes, or is the benefit of limit bouldering mostly stringing multiple moves at your limit, which i can find on these routes? or is the benefit tied to angle / terrain / ease of trying  over and over again / something else that i'm missing?

thanks for any advice.

yes

what's the difference and is there a way to make up that difference without risking falls from 12 feet up?

again, i am picking routes that are so hard for me that i can only do sections that are boulder-length. but those sections aren't as steep and don't have terrain changes.

"Bouldering on a rope" is what you are referring to here. Essentially, short hard sequrnces on roped routes, rather than on boulders. It is a totally valid approach and is a good option for your situation. 

Another option is traverses and low-ball bouldering. You could just climb the first few moves of limit-hard boulders. Make up low traverse problems on a spray wall. Climbing on an adjustable Kilter Board set as steep as it will go works also. Basically, finding (or making up) hard boulders where you stay close to the ground.

Don't forget the multiple non-climbing options including hangboarding and campusing. Developing bouldering strength can occur in multiple ways.

thanks, i think JCM understands the root of my question. 

peter, thanks for your response, but i am looking for specifically climbing options. i've been doing a fair bit (for me) of weight lifting, trying out the campus board, and hangboarding, but now i want to focus on getting better at climbing rather than getting stronger so want my legs and core to be involved in the problem solving aspect of climbing.

JCM wrote:

"Bouldering on a rope" is what you are referring to here. Essentially, short hard sequrnces on roped routes, rather than on boulders. It is a totally valid approach and is a good option for your situation. 

Us old people call it 'Oldering'.

While “bouldering on the rope” is certainly a thing, I believe that just bouldering (Kilterboard that you said you are willing/able to do) is more efficient. For the following reasons:

1. logistics. Obviously you need a belayer, one willing to belay while you bolt-to-bolt a hard route. Chen es are, this person will also want the same favor in return, so you would have a very long session… and you said time crunch is a concern.

2. Gym routes are rarely set to be hard from start to finish. In fact, the setters tend to make the start a bit easier than the grade, and rely on pump/higher crux to make the grade, while keeping safety in mind. Which means that you would be climbing a good deal of easier terrain to get to that boulder problem. Again, inefficient, if you are trying to improve your max strength and power.

Basically: it would be best to find hard problems on the boards, and use them to work on your power and strength. And then, when you are closer to the outdoor season, throw in some rope sessions, and build your endurance on the base of the power gained from  bouldering. 

ilya f wrote:

thanks, i think JCM understands the root of my question. 

peter, thanks for your response, but i am looking for specifically climbing options. i've been doing a fair bit (for me) of weight lifting, trying out the campus board, and hangboarding, but now i want to focus on getting better at climbing rather than getting stronger so want my legs and core to be involved in the problem solving aspect of climbing.

Good clarification and I should have been more specific, especially regarding the campus board. Dynamic loading of fingers is a critical technical skill to master that is often overlooked and can be done safely and consistently on a hangboard or campus board. Campusing very effectively engages core abdominal muscles as well. 1-3 move steep limit bouldering is your best bet to engage the lower body at a very high level. Few routes are intense enough to have a real training effect in that regard.

In my personal experience (one data point so take it for what it's worth), route climbing is not an efficient way to build power and technique once you get into the 5.12/V6 range. Especially in a gym, the individual moves just aren't hard enough to maximize strength gains. 

thanks adam, lena, peter, and ryan. your responses are very helpful in honing in on what i'm really asking - the nuance in benefit of bouldering vs bouldering on a rope. belayer concerns are real - we usually have 2-3 routes on the autobelay at the 5.12 level (where the first half of the route feels like a bunch of consecutive limit moves), but these don't change week to week so probably not enough diversity to substitute. the lack of cruxes and setting for pump at a given grade level is another great point. our route setters come from the other old-school gym in town where the walls were really short and they had to set essentially long boulder problems, but i've noticed a much less stark contrast between difficulty of moves on a given route than there used to be.

i haven't explored stuff like circuits and routes on the kilterboard - i'll do some googling. i've been doing occasional limit bouldering and 4x4s on the board but sounds like i can find what i'm looking for there. yes, the goal is to climb routes. i don't have a particular route in mind, but my overall lifetime goal is to onsight multipitch 5.11 in the valley in any style. i am almost 40 and have kids so i don't have a choice but to make incremental gains toward hopefully achieving that goal one day. my body can't really take pro-level athlete levels of training - i started climbing at 30 and have never been particularly athletic, so i feel that the most likely path toward my goal is through climbing technique while slowly building strength.

anyway, thank you for your insights!

ilya f wrote:

thanks adam, lena, peter, and ryan. your responses are very helpful in honing in on what i'm really asking - the nuance in benefit of bouldering vs bouldering on a rope. belayer concerns are real - we usually have 2-3 routes on the autobelay at the 5.12 level (where the first half of the route feels like a bunch of consecutive limit moves), but these don't change week to week so probably not enough diversity to substitute. the lack of cruxes and setting for pump at a given grade level is another great point. our route setters come from the other old-school gym in town where the walls were really short and they had to set essentially long boulder problems, but i've noticed a much less stark contrast between difficulty of moves on a given route than there used to be.

i haven't explored stuff like circuits and routes on the kilterboard - i'll do some googling. i've been doing occasional limit bouldering and 4x4s on the board but sounds like i can find what i'm looking for there. yes, the goal is to climb routes. i don't have a particular route in mind, but my overall lifetime goal is to onsight multipitch 5.11 in the valley in any style. i am almost 40 and have kids so i don't have a choice but to make incremental gains toward hopefully achieving that goal one day. my body can't really take pro-level athlete levels of training - i started climbing at 30 and have never been particularly athletic, so i feel that the most likely path toward my goal is through climbing technique while slowly building strength.

anyway, thank you for your insights!

I think you are not quite getting the idea of the right difficulty for power/strength bouldering.

Autobelay would not be suitable for this. For one thing, it is not steep enough. For another, if you miss the move, you are going all the way down, and have to reclimb everything to that point again, with only one chance of hitting the move again. That is not the intensity you need for strength and power gain. If you are making multiple moves and getting 2/3rd of the way up the route on autobelay, you are NOT making limit moves, not even close.

Limit bouldering means the moves that are hard. really hard. you won't hit the move on the first or 2nd try. Your improvement might be measured in inches, not sends. Obviously you would try easier things to get to the point of hard limit bouldering. You would try some problems that you thought might be hard, and discover that they aren't. And then you'll go a bit harder, etc.

Ask your gym to get a moonboard or switch gyms to one that has a moonboard. If you’re willing to do the kilter board it’s the same height but with smaller holds, which will train more what you want.

Kilter board is great for training power, big explosive moves from big holds, but the holds are bigger than a moonboard so it’s not as fingery.

Another option is to use a spray wall with small holds but not all gyms have this.

thanks all, i feel like i understand the difference - steepness and crux moves are the benefit of bouldering vs bouldering on a rope. much appreciated, going to close the topic.