Half ropes

Thoughts on using two 9.3s as half ropes and possibly belaying two ppl up simultaneously?

Edit: what are your thoughts on using two single ropes (like two 9.3s) as half ropes, other than being heavier?

I’d only use a fat 9.3 to tow my truck.  

I’d never bring two up a climb, but otherwise your idea is fine…

Edit per OP edit: generally  don’t use 2 singles in half rope technique unless specifically rated for 1/2 rope.    Use 1 single as usual and  just drag the second rope

If you are belaying two people simultaneously, you are not using them as half ropes.

You are using them as two single ropes.

If the 9.3's are not rated as single ropes, be aware that you are sacrificing some edge-cutting protection that single-ropes may provide.

Belaying two seconds using a guide plate, with one on each half rope is totally normal in the UK/Europe. Works well.

If you need to ask the internet you have lack of experience and shouldn't be bringing up 2. 

It depends on terrain and way more factors honestly. Is it rock or a snow gully are they matching ropes or different brands. Each rope maker and specific type lot#  stretch at different rates. Are they triple double or single rated, what is the load each climber is carrying ECT.

Your question is so blank you seem to be fishing for a debate or just started climbing. Best of luck as a lead it's your job to keep your second alive and safe, you hold a life in your hands.

FrankPSwrote:

If you are belaying two people simultaneously, you are not using them as half ropes.

You are using them as two single ropes.

If the 9.3's are not rated as single ropes, be aware that you are sacrificing some edge-cutting protection that single-ropes may provide.

Is there a rope at 9.3mm that isn't rated as a single?

M Mwrote:

Is there a rope at 9.3mm that isn't rated as a single?

If that's true, then what is the OP's question? Maybe you can translate?

Maybe the OP doesn't understand what half-ropes are. 

FrankPSwrote:

If that's true, then what is the OP's question? Maybe you can translate?

Maybe the OP doesn't understand what half-ropes are. 

Maybe the OP shouldn't be learning guiding techniques from randos on the www? Just throwing that out there

FrankPSwrote:

If that's true, then what is the OP's question? Maybe you can translate?

Maybe the OP doesn't understand what half-ropes are. 

I updated the question. I'm thinking about getting more rope and was seeing if I could use 2 single 9.3s as halfs.

FrankPSwrote:

Hey Blocka (OP),

Where are you? No response to any of these comments? Lame.

Just seeing these now 

Chris Mwrote:

If you need to ask the internet you have lack of experience and shouldn't be bringing up 2. 

I know right!!!  Coming to a forum to ask a question, a climbing forum to ask a climbing question, a place where we discuss all kinds of climbing stuff all day long.  Absurd.  

First bro flex.

Then you go on to spew this nonsense below.  

Second bro flex. 

It depends on terrain and way more factors honestly. Is it rock or a snow gully are they matching ropes or different brands. Each rope maker and specific type lot#  stretch at different rates. Are they triple double or single rated, what is the load each climber is carrying ECT.

And one final flex.  Way to go bro.  

Your question is so blank you seem to be fishing for a debate or just started climbing. Best of luck as a lead it's your job to keep your second alive and safe, you hold a life in your hands.

At least get your terminology correct.  Double rope is not a thing.  It's half.  Although people use the term double when they mean half.  Have you ever seen a rope certification called double? 

To the op, you are probably fine leading with two 9.3's as long as you don't clip both ropes to any given piece because this would increase the load on your top piece in the event of a fall, nearly twice the load. (actually, about 1.4 times if I recall the last time I did the math).  Yes, some people actually go between half and twin technique in the same pitch.  There was a lengthy discussion on this, even some pro climbers do this but they are likely using ropes rated for half technique.  

Your belayer might not have much fun belaying two ropes that large.  Not to mention belaying half rope technique requires practice to do it well, feeding ropes at different rates and such.  

Instead, lead on one rope assuming it is rated for single rope use, trail the other, clip the other on occasion if needed to protect that follower from pendi's.  Then top belay both of your follows on separate 9.3's.  

lol, was gonna come back and give a more complete answer once you proved to not be a bot, but Greg pretty much covered it.  

My thoughts are two 9.3’s are overkill and not recommended.  Per Greg, lead on one 9.3 per usual (not half or twin techniques) but probably drag something else for the third climber.

 I’ve done this many times over the years but with 8.5 half ropes.  I’ll leave it to you and others to weigh the risk of toproping off a 1/2 rated 8.5 (hint: it’s perfectly fine).   I’d tend to avoid tho if pendulum risk is present.

I’ll add that you should have a good rehearsal and communication plan with your partners , especially if they are new-ish.  You don’t want to be on a windy multipitch trying to unfuck yourselves from scratch if things don’t go as planned.  

Greg Dwrote:

At least get your terminology correct.  Double rope is not a thing.  It's half.

Actually "double rope" is a thing.  It happens to the be the same as "half rope".  Yes, this is confusing.  But it is a thing. (Twin is different, though.)

e.g. https://www.thecrag.com/en/article/glossary#d

Where it has:
"
double rope

See half rope.

"

Greg Dwrote:

I know right!!!  Coming to a forum to ask a question, a climbing forum to ask a climbing question, a place where we discuss all kinds of climbing stuff all day long.  Absurd.  

First bro flex.

Then you go on to spew this nonsense below.  

Second bro flex. 

And one final flex.  Way to go bro.  

At least get your terminology correct.  Double rope is not a thing.  It's half.  Although people use the term double when they mean half.  Have you ever seen a rope certification called double? 

To the op, you are probably fine leading with two 9.3's as long as you don't clip both ropes to any given piece because this would increase the load on your top piece in the event of a fall, nearly twice the load. (actually, about 1.4 times if I recall the last time I did the math).  Yes, some people actually go between half and twin technique in the same pitch.  There was a lengthy discussion on this, even some pro climbers do this but they are likely using ropes rated for half technique.  

Your belayer might not have much fun belaying two ropes that large.  Not to mention belaying half rope technique requires practice to do it well, feeding ropes at different rates and such.  

Instead, lead on one rope assuming it is rated for single rope use, trail the other, clip the other on occasion if needed to protect that follower from pendi's.  Then top belay both of your follows on separate 9.3's.  

Not flexing anything some people call twins Doubles. It means a lot to me that you devoted so much energy to my post though and here you go straight from Beal Ropes using the term Double.

https://www.beal-planet.com/en/dynamic-ropes/1430-8822-opera-85mm.html#/14-color-blue/58-length-50m/99-traitement-dry_cover/254-safe_control-standard

The lightest single rope

With its weight of 48 grams per meter, the OPERA 8.5 is the lightest and thinnest single rope on the market. The first to weigh less than 50 grams. A true concentrate of all BÉAL's know-how, it combines several technological innovations to offer a resistant rope that is both ultra-light and ultra-fluid. With its low impact force, OPERA 8.5 is a rope designed for the most demanding climbers, while remaining versatile. In fact, it is also certified as a double and twin rope.

Blocka Climberwrote:

Thoughts on using two 9.3s as half ropes and possibly belaying two ppl up simultaneously?

 

Edit: what are your thoughts on using two single ropes (like two 9.3s) as half ropes, other than being heavier?

My intention wasn't to be condescending or put you down. If I could afford another set or my partner was to buy a match. I would go for 2 Beal opera 8.5s 2nd choice would be Edelrid Canary. They are a great rope and handle well in lots of conditions, Rock, snow, ice.

It gives the option of Tagging one up behind you as a single, clipping as twins/doubles, or clipping as half ropes on wide ice, rock, or traversing routes. They don't have near the rope drag when clipped as twins or weight that a 9.3 would give you and handle well. I would have rather gone this route vs my Beal Gully's since it has more options out of a single item. 

9.3s would work, anything is possible.

Did this on Whitney back when 9mm were half ropes. Works great on easy terrain. People have been using double rope technique with singles forever as well. Twin rope is something else.

Eric Craig wrote:

Oh yeah, using 2 mismatched ropes is not neccesarily bad either. If someone here thinks otherwise,  please enlighten me. 

Twin/Half/Double ropes: Double rope technique predates kernmantle ropes and the UIAA. Historically I don't think the term double was applied to an individual rope. Half ropes are used for double rope technique. I have  also seen double rope technique used with single ropes, on more than one occasion, by British climbers. This includes a late 1970's ascent of the Nabisco Wall with the late Ed Drummond. Amazingly, and I can't say exactly why, Ed lead Butterballs, in EB's, trailing 2 single ropes, alternately clipping #5 and (mostly)#6 hexentrics. I think there was a stopper in there somewhere too, a 7-1/2 or 8. Yeah, I used a hip belay. I also lead my pitches on just one rope. Butterfingers was my first clean 5.11 lead. Waverly Wafer was 5.10c then.

Twin ropes are a relatively recent innovation. Late 1990's? You  use Twin rope technique with Twin ropes. And Double Rope technique with 1/2 ropes. Or, I guess,  half rope technique. 

A Brit I watched locally in the late 70’s said they liked a single with a half for double rope technique as the rock they climb was sharp. They liked the little bit of extra thickness. At the time the single was a 10 mm (thin for the time when most were 11) and the half was a 9mm. They used a stitch plate made for the two sizes.

The only concern I'd have to ponder is the impact force to the leader if both ropes are clipped to the same piece. I'd compare the impact force of the 9.3 single to a single rope impact of fairly standard half rope, to help gauge a decision. 

Good luck!

Belaying two people up simultaneously is fine but you need to plan ahead a little.

Keep enough space between them (the time of thumb I follow is three bolts).  Make sure the second one up knows to gather everything. Make sure the first one up knows what to gather ... on vertical sections they can take everything. On traverses they would need to unclip their rope, optionally clipping the other rope (half Vs twin makes a difference).

Blocka Climberwrote:

Thoughts on using two 9.3s as half ropes and possibly belaying two ppl up simultaneously?

Edit: what are your thoughts on using two single ropes (like two 9.3s) as half ropes, other than being heavier?

I have done this a bunch. I extend each piece and clip each rope to separate biners.

Belay with Smart Alpine or similar and rack the ropes separate at the belay. Any single rated ropes will do.

When placing the gear consider how falls from your followers will affect each-other.