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Poorly executed bolted routes in BCC

Peter Lenz · · Salt Lake City · Joined May 2008 · Points: 670
Brian in SLC wrote:

Well...still not very accepted to add bolts to climbs that take pro (huge example of that "just across the way" from CBA...hate to bring that painful turd up).  For Coral Bells, they followed a custom still very much in practice today.  Look at all the OP's "poorly executed" examples.  They're trad routes with a few pro bolts.  These are all fairly recent routes.

At what point is the route accepted "as is"?  What if the first ascensionists regret putting any bolts in and decided it was just best to remove them all?  Or, in a lot of cases, just completely bolt a crack climb because trad gear has become too spendy?  At some point...I'm thinkin' the community accepts the route as is, especially if gear is pluggable and the rock hasn't spalled off.

The route is over 30 years old.  Its never been a "sport route".  In the Ruckman guide the description notes "bring a few nuts".  If the features that hold gear fell off...that'd be a good reason.  Until then...dunno.  Best to leave IMHO.

I concur. If FA’s want to do it, that’s fine. Otherwise leave it as is. 

Peter Lenz · · Salt Lake City · Joined May 2008 · Points: 670
Darren Mabe wrote:

This is why I started installing suggestion/complaint boxes at the base of my routes. Sounds like you need a full refund, Karen. 

No need for name calling and nastiness. Tim is a good guy, who would give you the shirt off his back. He also has the courage to use his real name, even though he knew he would receive negative responses. 

Darren Mabe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
Peter Lenz wrote:

No need for name calling and nastiness. Tim is a good guy, who would give you the shirt off his back. He also has the courage to use his real name, even though he knew he would receive negative responses. 

My name is Darren. 

bsmoot · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 3,423

Can certainly understand and respect Tim's desire to prevent climbers from decking and it's nice that he put this out for discussion. Maybe he can get the help he needs from FA parties. My 2 cents worth is that most of the mentioned routes should remain as they are. There are plenty of well protected moderate routes around. Just because a route is a moderate, doesn't mean that it always needs to be well protected. Adding a bolt because a climber is old, young, a beginner or was ill prepared (not bring Trad gear) is not an excuse for adding a bolt to a route that has been climbed for decades as is.

 If a first ascent party doesn't want to place a bolt next to a crack, that should be respected, even if the majority of the route is bolted. I wouldn't consider that type of FA "Poorly executed". The Wasatch has a proud history of good ethics using natural features in the rock as much as possible. A lot of beginners I've talked to enjoy the learning experience of doing moderate but heady routes. It's a very important part of the mental progression and confidence needed to overcome fear. Evolving bold climbers have to start somewhere. If you want to climb the classics in the high mountains such as Lone Pk, the Winds, Tetons and elsewhere these climbs are great training.

M M · · Maine · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 2
bsmoot wrote:

Can certainly understand and respect Tim's desire to prevent climbers from decking and it's nice that he put this out for discussion. Maybe he can get the help he needs from FA parties. My 2 cents worth is that most of the mentioned routes should remain as they are. There are plenty of well protected moderate routes around. Just because a route is a moderate, doesn't mean that it always needs to be well protected. Adding a bolt because a climber is old, young, a beginner or was ill prepared (not bring Trad gear) is not an excuse for adding a bolt to a route that has been climbed for decades as is.

 If a first ascent party doesn't want to place a bolt next to a crack, that should be respected, even if the majority of the route is bolted. I wouldn't consider that type of FA "Poorly executed". The Wasatch has a proud history of good ethics using natural features in the rock as much as possible. A lot of beginners I've talked to enjoy the learning experience of doing moderate but heady routes. It's a very important part of the mental progression and confidence needed to overcome fear. Evolving bold climbers have to start somewhere. If you want to climb the classics in the high mountains such as Lone Pk, the Winds, Tetons and elsewhere these climbs are great training.

It is a proud history and helped me a ton. Harder mixed lines like Weed Killer definitely helped me get better at feeling more secure on pure trad lines, plus it helps keep the crowds down.

Trad Man · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 0

When I read the title I was expecting a complaint that there were too many bolts in BCC

Tyler Phillips · · Cottonwood Heights, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 3,597
bsmoot wrote:

Can certainly understand and respect Tim's desire to prevent climbers from decking and it's nice that he put this out for discussion. Maybe he can get the help he needs from FA parties. My 2 cents worth is that most of the mentioned routes should remain as they are. There are plenty of well protected moderate routes around. Just because a route is a moderate, doesn't mean that it always needs to be well protected. Adding a bolt because a climber is old, young, a beginner or was ill prepared (not bring Trad gear) is not an excuse for adding a bolt to a route that has been climbed for decades as is.

 If a first ascent party doesn't want to place a bolt next to a crack, that should be respected, even if the majority of the route is bolted. I wouldn't consider that type of FA "Poorly executed". The Wasatch has a proud history of good ethics using natural features in the rock as much as possible. A lot of beginners I've talked to enjoy the learning experience of doing moderate but heady routes. It's a very important part of the mental progression and confidence needed to overcome fear. Evolving bold climbers have to start somewhere. If you want to climb the classics in the high mountains such as Lone Pk, the Winds, Tetons and elsewhere these climbs are great training.

Amen

Tom Hore · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 205

The trend of climbing to become convenient is not necessarily a bad thing, but for me I found it way more rewarding waiting until I was ready for a particular route as opposed to just asking if it could be bolted into submission..

The process of chasing a grade and pursuing one's pure sport climbing skills is a lot of fun. However, those moments where you feel you cheated injury over some tipped out cam on some slippery granite ( or in this case quartzite) are the one's you'll really remember.

Peter Lenz · · Salt Lake City · Joined May 2008 · Points: 670
Darren Mabe wrote:

My name is Darren. 

His full real name.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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