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What methods do guides use to climb safely if their client doesn't know how to belay?
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I’ve definitely taught people who have barely touched ropes how to lead belay and brought them up easy stuff within a few minutes. I don’t think it’s that crazy. |
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It seems like a big mistake to guide a client with zero experience on a major objective. And I doubt the majority of guiding services allow it. It is standard practice in Grand Teton National Park to require all inexperienced clients to receive some training for 5th class. Even after an intermediate class to climb the Grand, it is highly unlikely that all clients are fully dialed in. Proof of this is seen regularly where clients often require assistance after two days of training. People expect the guide to execute flawlessly when it comes to client safety and they usually do. But, even guides know the value of a trained client. The potential for worst-case scenarios is always there in climbing. Your guide may die or be seriously injured. That has happened plenty of times in the Tetons. Besides padding the revenue stream, covering the basics of climbing & safety, and having some fun, training also allows guides to assess clients which is a very valuable bit of information. As has been pointed out, children are often guided differently so training may have different goals with them. |
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Clients usually do fine with belaying on a multipithch with minimal instruction so long as yourbropeanagment skills are good. The more tricky and annoying part in my opinion is repelling off. |
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I usually just take my new friends up something easy. Took a guy who had never climbed before - even in a gym - up Bears Reach. Taught him the basics of belaying the night before over some moonlight scrambling and beers. Took another 2 friends who had never climbed up Physical Graffiti a few days ago and gave them a quick course on belaying. I just planned on not falling. Be in complete control of the situation. |
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I don't know. I couldn't see. I ripped a 20mm^2 flapper on my cornea at the start of a IV 5.10 A0. At the top of the 2nd pitch, my guide, who was a WFR/WLS/MD/whoknowswhatelse, identified the problem, and gave me a very accurate rundown of how painful it was going to be, but how quickly it would heal. We were already on route, so I figured I would just keep going, since there wasn't much that could be done. The midday sun, however, proved to be brutally punishing. I went from climbing with one eye open, to doing several pitches with both eyes closed. And the pain was so bad, I asked my guide if it was ok to belay him by feel, and with my eyes closed. A request he graciously accepted. By the end of the route, the sun had passed by the face and the lighting softened, and I could once again keep one eye open without feeling like I was going to go into syncope. I've broken bones in climbing mishaps. I've had open fractures about as deep into the backcountry in CONUS as you can get. I've spent the night out with an open fracture, got frostbite even, which was kind of a surprise. I've never had pain like I had when I ripped that section of cornea. My guide was awesome. I'd gladly climb with him again. Not sure if that's reciprocal, but his website still has my photo up for one of their climbs, so I guess that's something positive, or maybe mockery. Who knows ;) |
Marc H wrote: Not when they're good looking! |
Mikey Schaefer wrote: Neither famous nor a guide but have done that. In the early 70s while a student I was staying in the same hut as a school party. One kid (12/13?) wasn't enjoying climbing with his teachers so I volunteered to take him up a multipitch (easy but exposed). I knew he couldn't have held a leader fall (also waist belays then) so just told him not to belay but shout to me if the rope didn't pay out OK. Probably rightly there's no way that would happen today, especially with health and safety legislation and legal implications. |
i shore wrote: Still common on easy terrain especially if "they couldn't hold a leader fall" ;-) but not exclusively. And with some clients at some setups where there is a belay, it is simply letting the client think they are involved and a critical part of the climb. Sometimes it is part of the teaching process, keeping them engaged, warm, focused, or, as you imply, crossing the T's. Some guiding companies spell out exactly what a guide must do for some/most scenarios. Some rules are location specific - at a specific feature on a trade route, or for an entire route. Others companies have greater flexibility and guides use it at their professional discretion. |
Teton Climber wrote: I was meaning to emphasize the often more casual attitude to this scenario 50 years ago, at least in the UK. In that instance I was neither a guide nor instructor and the teachers responsible for letting the kid climb with me really knew nothing about me except that I was able to climb. |
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1. we all started somewhere. So either an instructor is on lead with a beginner, or a friend. There isn't much difference. 2. do a single pitch first, tell them what to do; watch what they do - might be something rather different 3. teach all skills needed for the climb in question on the floor. Including how to move on rock and clean gear 4. assuming the route is easy for the experienced climber, the chances of a fall is low. very, very low. As in 1:10,000. But could happen, so use a Revo and the leader places gear. I can't see the point of handing someone an ATC if they have never seen a rope before and expecting them to hold you. Have a plan if there were an accident. You will be mashed - you just fell off a 5.4 with long runouts. Bits will be broken. You need a phone. They need a phone. There needs to be a phone signal if not a popular location. 5. if route = 5.5, check they can climb 5.7, on the floor 6. take a stance above any crux, not at the normal stances 7. be kind |
