rest time between max strength and max hangs

What is your experience with doing fingerboard max hangs in the days following a max strength workout (something targeting big muscle groups, core, weighted pull ups, etc)? I am at about 150% BW on a 20 mm edge, so I wonder about the isometric  shoulder strength needed just to keep my shoulder joint together. But I generally do 9x 10s hangs, so it feels like such little volume that it doesn't matter. If I can do the same weight or increase the weight, can I assume I'm recovered enough, even if some muscles in my shoulders are sore? Can I chalk it up as a recovery level workout for everything except my fingers and forearms?

There's a couple things that I would change if I was you, given that strength is the goal. FTR, I'm not a coach or trainer, but I trust what they have to say. 

Most coaches and stronger peers I know usually recommend stepping down the edge size once you're adding somewhere around 50lbs on the waist, so that you can add less weight while keeping the intensity high and more targeted. 

It also sounds to me like you're outside the window of strength given the time under tension and sets.  For strength, I've always heard to shoot around 5 seconds, and I only do like 5ish sets of each grip I'm working with as much rest as I need to feel completely recovered. (sets can vary quite a bit through the season though)

They also say you can get more bang for your buck by stacking finger work on the same days as big muscle work, so you can capitalize on the hormonal response that you get from the large muscle groups, that you can't get from just high intensity finger work. 

Some of that might be off topic, but I feel like overall you might find something useful there. 

J C wrote:

What is your experience with doing fingerboard max hangs in the days following a max strength workout (something targeting big muscle groups, core, weighted pull ups, etc)? I am at about 150% BW on a 20 mm edge, so I wonder about the isometric  shoulder strength needed just to keep my shoulder joint together. But I generally do 9x 10s hangs, so it feels like such little volume that it doesn't matter. If I can do the same weight or increase the weight, can I assume I'm recovered enough, even if some muscles in my shoulders are sore? Can I chalk it up as a recovery level workout for everything except my fingers and forearms?

Just to clarify: you are doing 9 reps at 10 seconds each (with some sort of break) at 150% BW?! If so what is your 1 rep max hang?

In my experience there is no way I can do 9 sets at my max hang. Typically I would do 5 or 6 reps for 10 seconds each (with two minute rest in between each rep) at 80-90% of my 1 rep max.

I often do not “feel it” the day after but do feel the effects more long term (less tweaky doing fingery moves, smaller holds, etc.). 

almostrad wrote:

They also say you can get more bang for your buck by stacking finger work on the same days as big muscle work, so you can capitalize on the hormonal response that you get from the large muscle groups, that you can't get from just high intensity finger work. 

This is what I do too... stack your fingerboard workout with your MS workout and you will get better results due to the big muscle training releasing more growth hormone. The rest you take should allow you to try as hard as possible on each hang. Example: pull-up, squat, hang, 2 min rest, repeat for 4 sets, press, dead-lift, hang, 2 min rest, repeat for 4 sets. 

If you continue to fingerboard separately (maybe your lifting facility does not have a fingerboard) then just listen to your body. Some days I need 45 sec between hard hangs, and some days I need 3 min. If I need more than 3 min to feel like I can give a good effort it's time to stop. 

Ok I think I was unclear/left out info. My max hang routine is 3 hangs of 8-10 seconds, full rest between, on three/four different grip types. The whole thing comes down to 90 seconds of work. I do 10 second hangs based on what I've read from others who are more experienced, plus my own experience is that failure at 5 seconds is just pushing too close to injury zone. Perhaps it is time to move to smaller edges though and reduce weight. More than once I have tweaked my knee from squatting up with the weight attached.

For stacking fingerboard and big muscle strength, do you guys mean in the same workout or separate workouts with food and rest between? And which would you do first? I can think of arguments in both directions.

J C wrote:

Ok I think I was unclear/left out info. My max hang routine is 3 hangs of 8-10 seconds, full rest between, on three/four different grip types. The whole thing comes down to 90 seconds of work. I do 10 second hangs based on what I've read from others who are more experienced, plus my own experience is that failure at 5 seconds is just pushing too close to injury zone. Perhaps it is time to move to smaller edges though and reduce weight. More than once I have tweaked my knee from squatting up with the weight attached.

For stacking fingerboard and big muscle strength, do you guys mean in the same workout or separate workouts with food and rest between? And which would you do first? I can think of arguments in both directions.

There are conflicting studies supporting both sides (moving down in size or moving up in weight). I believe Eva Lopez is a proponent of smaller edges and Lattice proponent of more weight on 15mm or 20 mm edges. I could be wrong on who is a proponent of each though.

Personally, if it were me, it would come down to what I climb most on. If it were small crimps then I’d train smaller edges for a cycle, if it were for more powerful moves where the holds aren’t necessarily too small or it’s bigger moves to crimps then I’d train more weight on 15/20mm. 

As far as doubling down on big muscle and hang board days, I personally do not intermix the two on the same day (I.e. I complete them on the same day, but as two completely different workouts). I honestly don’t know if there is any benefit to this, but my thinking is that if I am training something to maximal effort, or close to it, like hangboarding then do not want to do a workout during that rest time even if they are not working the same muscles so-to-speak. To me, isolating everything makes sense to gain optimal gains/target specificity.

I believe Eva Lopez is a proponent of smaller edges.

She advises climbers to use both, MAW and MED, according to their needs and their progression.  ". . . it seems to be beneficial to alter between periods of MAW and MED . . . "

Not MP Admin wrote:

There are conflicting studies supporting both sides (moving down in size or moving up in weight). I believe Eva Lopez is a proponent of smaller edges and Lattice proponent of more weight on 15mm or 20 mm edges. I could be wrong on who is a proponent of each though.

Personally, if it were me, it would come down to what I climb most on. If it were small crimps then I’d train smaller edges for a cycle, if it were for more powerful moves where the holds aren’t necessarily too small or it’s bigger moves to crimps then I’d train more weight on 15/20mm. 

As far as doubling down on big muscle and hang board days, I personally do not intermix the two on the same day (I.e. I complete them on the same day, but as two completely different workouts). I honestly don’t know if there is any benefit to this, but my thinking is that if I am training something to maximal effort, or close to it, like hangboarding then do not want to do a workout during that rest time even if they are not working the same muscles so-to-speak. To me, isolating everything makes sense to gain optimal gains/target specificity.

While you’re right in principal; even the lattice guys cap how much weight they’re willing to hang on the harness. The goal is to work the nervous system and finger tendons, not do squats 

almostrad wrote:

While you’re right in principal; even the lattice guys cap how much weight they’re willing to hang on the harness. The goal is to work the nervous system and finger tendons, not do squats 

I think personally they might, but having gone through their training program a few cycles my experience is different. Typically it involved a cycle of heavy weight hangs on 15 mm followed by a cycle of lower weight on 10mm or 8 mm. I think that while there is a limit to the weight you should add, within reason, I would hope any individual approaching this limit would already have a decent enough understanding of training to properly asses their finger workouts and adjust accordingly…obviously not always the case, but I wanna see the person who is adding 100+ pounds to their body weight and never trained before. It should also be noted that someone weighing 200 is going typically going to be adding a different amount of weight than that of someone who weighs 125. 

I have multiple times, while assessing my 1 rep max max hang, felt like I was doing a squat in order to get to the hangboar, however have never felt like that when actually doing my workout since I typically structure my workouts between 80-90% of that said weight.

Again, just my experience. It’s always good to have more opinions when it comes to training though! 

I'd start one hand hangs on the same edge with some weight taken off (and of course train your shoulder stabilization with one hand hangs on jugs). 

Fan Y wrote:

I'd start one hand hangs on the same edge with some weight taken off (and of course train your shoulder stabilization with one hand hangs on jugs). 

Definitely something I wish I would have implemented into my training plan years ago! The later has been great pre-hab for me, personally.