Bolt Advice

Context: A local crag that is not frequented often.  I use it for after-work laps on easier routes. Most of the bolts and hangers have been replaced at some point with fixie gear.  However, several of the 2 bolt anchors are quite old. (see the top bolt in the foto)  One climb, which doesn't see much traffic due to its first bolt being quite high has an interesting bolted anchor situation.  At some point, one of the old style anchors came out, and later on someone put in a newer bolt below it.  There is 13.5 inches between the two, and you can imagine the troubles that can lead to for potential abseiling when cleaning the route.  

I think the old bolt needs to go and a new one should be put in, to work with the newer one below it.  However, until that happens I am brainstorming a temporary remedy to alleviate the weird situation.  My initial thought is to use a quick link and chain from the top bolt to allow rope to be threaded through the lower bolt and the chain at the same level.  (see dotted line in foto for reference). I would add a bigger stainless steel quick link to the newer bolt too.  Any better suggestions? 

 (I'm trying to get in contact with whoever put up the route to see about a new bolt for the anchor, but I feel it is prudent to have some temporary fix in the interim).  

Cheers and thanks in advance

Is that upper bolt even in solid rock? 

Can't see where the problem threading is in the first place, it's just a typical "French" style anchor. I'd just leave it as it is after changing the cold shut.

The block that it is in seems fairly solid.(Basalt, I believe. Some choss on the crag, but this particular color of rock seems to be good throughout the area)   I'd agree that the picture does make it appear less sturdy than it seems.  

It's difficult to tell from the photo, it's blurry when I zoom in, but the top bolt looks like a stainless Petzl Long Life. You can't replace the cold shut if so, add the chain set up if it gives you comfort. If someone cares, they will just remove it. 

If the upper bolt is in good condition and in solid rock, the simplest thing you could do to improve this anchor would be to add a rap ring to the lower bolt. As is it looks like it will pin the rope to the wall.

Jim Tittwrote:

Can't see where the problem threading is in the first place, it's just a typical "French" style anchor. I'd just leave it as it is after changing the cold shut.

 The only time I have encountered vertically aligned bolts at an anchor has been sets with chain connecting the two.  Upon further investigation of this style of anchor, it looks like it is standard to abseil off the top bolt alone, and thread the rope through the lower bolt as a backup?  If that is common practice with those kind of anchors, then I'm good with that.  I appreciate the info.  

Like Jim Titt said get rid of the cold shut on the top bolt. 

If you want to go French style a pigtail on the top bolt and a wire gate stainless carabiner like team tough sells on the bottom with at least a 5/16 ss quick link to attach to the hanger. That would be twist free and not require untying.

If you think locals will balk at the French style then linking with stainless chain is perfect. A single pigtail there at the link is a good way but you could also do rings or stainless biners and still have beautiful hardware.

Please do NOT try to swap out that cold shut. The bolt is very likely a 3/8" 5-piece, and if you were to try to unscrew it, you have a fairly high chance of the bolt just snapping (about 1 in 5 for that rust level of a 3/8" 5-piece in basalt, in my experience). And if it unscrews successfully and you place a new hanger, that hanger will be super loose on the bolt unless you stack a pile of washers around the upper sleeve of the 5-piece (would have to be 3/8" sized washers to go around the entire sleeve, not 5/16" size washer like the ones which come with the bolt). You would also have to be very careful to make sure not to over-tighten the bolt, and if the washers were slightly too thick, you might under-seat the end of the bolt in the cone.

Also, someone removed one of the anchor bolts and added that lower bolt, perhaps for a good reason - such as the original anchor location being somewhat suspect. If you were experienced you could tell by the sound of a hammer blow on the rock whether or not the block was solid. Presumably it didn't sound super nasty or else both bolts would have been moved down, but on the other hand maybe the person who added the lower bolt only had one bolt, or dropped something like the drill bit, or ran away from a thunderstorm, etc.

That bolt is definitely not a Long-Life. Long-lifes came attached to the Petzl hanger - a tight interference fit I think, I don't even know if you could carefully pound the hanger off. Also, even if you had just the bolt, Long-lifes are short bolts, so it would only be in the rock about 1.5" or less if you coupled it with a cold shut. Also the head looks different, this just looks like a 3/8" 5-piece with a bit of rust on the edges of the head.

Short version: leave it be (French style), or add a chain if you feel like it, but please don't mess with the actual bolts unless you're prepared to replace the bolt entirely.

Thank you to all who contributed. It has been informative and helpful.  I'm not equipped/trained to swap the bolt, but hopefully can get in touch with someone local who is able to.  In the meantime I may link up the two with some ss chain or add a ss rap ring.  I'll drop something back in here with any new development.  Again, thanks for your insight. 

Drop chain and a quicklink down to the lower anchor ring. 

Greg Barneswrote:

That bolt is definitely not a Long-Life. Long-lifes came attached to the Petzl hanger - a tight interference fit I think, I don't even know if you could carefully pound the hanger off.

It is possible to remove the Long Life (edit for clarity: from its hanger). Stone Mtn, NC has these, coupled with Fixe ring hangers, all over the South Face from a CCC rebolting effort in the 90s. 

But, I definitely agree that bolt doesn't look anything like a Long Life.

nbrownwrote:

It is possible to remove the Long Life. Stone Mtn, NC has these, coupled with Fixe ring hangers, all over the South Face from a CCC rebolting effort in the 90s. 

But, I definitely agree that bolt doesn't look anything like a Long Life.

Remove the long life bolt from the hanger and put it in a different hanger is what I think Nathan means. They are a light press fit.

timothy fisherwrote:

Remove the long life bolt from the hanger and put it in a different hanger is what I think Nathan means. They are a light press fit.

Yes. Now if only there was a good way to remove one from the rock...

Also looks like the newer bolt is a non-stainless 5-piece with a stainless hanger. Should be fine for quite sometime in a dry climate, but something to consider if updating the anchor, might as well make all the bolts/hangers stainless.