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Mark Hudon
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Jun 7, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
The crags and walls these days are crowded, like it it not, more people going up and going down. Inevitably someone is going to rap into your anchor and you’re going to rap into someone else’s.
Here are a couple of tips.
First of all, be nice! Your experience is not more important than theirs and theirs is not more important than yours. We are all in this together and we are all out to have fun.
The first person down to an occupied anchor should dangle there and talk to them and maybe try to assess their comfort and ability level. Tell them that you and your buddy can make this transition easy and fast if they want to help out a bit. What you want to do is fix your rope to their anchor, using their biners, and when both of you are down at the next anchor, they can simply untie the knot and throw your rope off. Pro pro tip. The very second the rope gets tied to their anchor, one of your team should get on it and get out of there. You both don’t need to be at the anchor to pull your rope. This avoids needing to thread your rope into their (maybe clustered) anchor. It also avoids you having to pull your rope down, the end coming up and wiping all over the place. Jordan and I use this technique a lot and we can arrive at an anchor and both be gone in about 5 minutes. Also, if you have been doing one rope raps, now you can rap two pitches and maybe miss another party on the next anchor. Jordan and I used this trick to pass 20 people (no joke, actual count) from below the Ear to the ground last fall.
Rapping the Heart Fixed Ropes. So you’ve just done the Freeblast or your bailing from something. It’s afternoon and other parties are heading up the ropes. If you have an ascender and a few shoulder length slings with you, you can pass people at the anchors in about 30 seconds. Rap down past the occupied anchor and clip your ascender into the next rope going down, stand in a sling hung from that ascender (you are attached to the ascender with another sling). Take your rappel device off the upper rope, attach it to the lower rope, suck in some slack, step off the sling attached to the jug, unclip the jug, drop it and get going. Now, I’m sorry, if you believe that hanging from that one jug on a vertical rope is dangerous then you really shouldn’t be on a wall. Never in the history of climbing has a motionless ascender simply popped off a vertically hanging rope.
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Mark Hudon
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Jun 9, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
Another version of the first tip is that if someone is rapping down into YOUR anchor, take control and set it up this was so that they can pass quickly. Jordan and I have done that for a few parties and they were impressed and thanked us for teaching them something new.
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Big Red
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Jun 9, 2020
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Seattle
· Joined Apr 2013
· Points: 1,201
Nice system! Just gotta make sure you've secured the other end of the rope to the next anchor before the party above unties the knot and tosses your rope off the wall :)
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Mark Hudon
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Jun 9, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
That would seem to go without saying.
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Sam M
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Jun 9, 2020
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Portland, OR
· Joined Oct 2017
· Points: 30
I like it. It would be great to be able to skip rap stations by using the full 60m, just have to make sure the party up there is competent enough.
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Mark Hudon
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Jun 9, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
Competent in what? Untying a knot and throwing off the rope?
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Paul Morrison
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Jun 9, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Nov 2006
· Points: 55
Big Redwrote: Nice system! Just gotta make sure you've secured the other end of the rope to the next anchor before the party above unties the knot and tosses your rope off the wall :) I think I'd be inclined to expressly ask them to only untie the knot but not to toss the rope. A single strand with no knots should slip down along with the next person on rappel, without landing in a pile atop the partner waiting at the next anchor below, or any other parties who may be anchored there. Mark?
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Mark Hudon
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Jun 9, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
They wouldn’t pull up any rope. They would untie the knot and either drop it or throw it.
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Salamanizer Ski
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Jun 9, 2020
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Off the Grid…
· Joined Sep 2005
· Points: 20,944
Mark Hudonwrote: That would seem to go without saying. You’d think! I use this system and actually did serinity and sons last year even though I usually avoid this type of route. Anyway, after rapping through a very clusterfukt party, I had to yell up and explain several times to untie the rope and throw it down. Even though I had already explained it while at the anchor. Shit ain’t rocket science.
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Mark Hudon
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Jun 9, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
Sala... I know, it’s sad and scary. I have stories...
I’ll write one up in the next few days.
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Robert Hall
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Jun 9, 2020
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North Conway, NH
· Joined Aug 2013
· Points: 28,846
Is (pretty much) the ONLY reason your asking the rope to be fixed and then untied (when you are down) because you're rapping with a single 60m rope on a line with fixed anchors 30m apart, and now you can do a 60m rap? If you were rapping with double 60m's, you wouldn't fix the rope, would you?
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Mark Hudon
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Jun 9, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
No, the main point is to get past the occupied anchor easily and quickly. Being able to do a big 60 or 70m rap is a side advantage.
I’m sorry, Robert, but did you actually read my first post?
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Ryan Pfleger
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Jun 9, 2020
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Boise, ID
· Joined Sep 2014
· Points: 25
Robert Hallwrote: Is (pretty much) the ONLY reason your asking the rope to be fixed and then untied (when your down) because you're rapping with a single 60m rope on a line with fixed anchors 30m apart, and now you can do a 60m rap? If you were rapping with double 60m's, you wouldn't fix the rope, would you? You also don't have to thread the rope, you can simply tie it off and blast down as soon as your partner is off rappel. No need to equalize lengths, find the middle, etc. You can pull as you go, or your partner can.
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Robert Hall
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Jun 9, 2020
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North Conway, NH
· Joined Aug 2013
· Points: 28,846
Yup..GOT IT, Mark. Pardon an "old fart"..... I've actually done this a couple of times at the "Gunks", but mostly because unthinking climbers had clipped into the descending rings, instead of the bolts, and it was nearly impossible to thread the rings. Didn't think of the time savings, although sometimes it takes longer to explain things to the climbers on the ledge than it would to thread-and-go, there being a slightly different experience level encountered here in the East on 2-6 pitch climbs than on El Cap !
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ABB
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Jun 9, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Mar 2007
· Points: 0
I've done this with some measure of success over the years. More experienced climbers are generally cool with it, recognize competence and understand it all, including the favor of hastening another's exit. Others? 'No, we each use our own gear.' Wonderful. What if you don't have to untie the knot? A little explanation goes a long way. If really stubborn, beer-bribe.
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Pete Nelson
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Jun 9, 2020
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Santa Cruz, CA
· Joined Nov 2012
· Points: 27
Geez Mark...sounds good, but I am not sure that I get it!
I think you're telling us to do the following:
1) Mark raps to the next anchor below him and Jordan, ties one rope about 6' back from the end into that anchor (after getting the go-ahead from the other party), and gets out of the way as best as possible. 2) Jordan raps to the same anchor, ties in, and pulls Mark and Jordan's two ropes (can't be dropped because Mark has tied the rope into the anchor). 3) Mark ties their two ropes together again, clips them to the anchor, and frees the rope tie-in from the anchor (one less thing for the other party to do). 4) Jordan asks the other party to untie the knot joining the two ropes together and drop the ends once both Mark and Jordan are at the anchor below. 5) Mark and Jordan rap their ropes to the next anchor below and call up to the other party. 6) Other party unties Mark and Jordan's ropes and drops the ends. 7) Jordan and Mark continue to the base; other party continues to climb up.
The advantage is minimal disruption to the other party and some speed advantage to Mark and Jordan. Perhaps it's me, but I could not follow your description until I wrote it out myself--or maybe I'm still not getting it! (I added a few details likely to vary with the situation because it helped me to visualize the process.)
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Mark Hudon
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Jun 9, 2020
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Reno, NV
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 420
Ha! I’d simply give them two of my biner’s to keep.
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Sam M
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Jun 9, 2020
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Portland, OR
· Joined Oct 2017
· Points: 30
Mark Hudonwrote: Competent in what? Untying a knot and throwing off the rope? You might be surprised. I've passed a few parties I wouldnt trust with even that simple task.
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Fail Falling
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Jun 9, 2020
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@failfalling - Oakland, Ca
· Joined Jan 2007
· Points: 1,043
Sam Mwrote: You might be surprised. I've passed a few parties I wouldnt trust with even that simple task. FACT
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Hson P
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Jun 9, 2020
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Berkeley, CA
· Joined Nov 2017
· Points: 54
Pete Nelsonwrote: Geez Mark...sounds good, but I am not sure that I get it!
I think you're telling us to do the following:
1) Mark raps to the next anchor below him and Jordan, ties one rope about 6' back from the end into that anchor (after getting the go-ahead from the other party), and gets out of the way as best as possible. 2) Jordan raps to the same anchor, ties in, and pulls Mark and Jordan's two ropes (can't be dropped because Mark has tied the rope into the anchor). 3) Mark ties their two ropes together again, clips them to the anchor, and frees the rope tie-in from the anchor (one less thing for the other party to do). 4) Jordan asks the other party to untie the knot joining the two ropes together and drop the ends once both Mark and Jordan are at the anchor below. 5) Mark and Jordan rap their ropes to the next anchor below and call up to the other party. 6) Other party unties Mark and Jordan's ropes and drops the ends. 7) Jordan and Mark continue to the base; other party continues to climb up.
The advantage is minimal disruption to the other party and some speed advantage to Mark and Jordan. Perhaps it's me, but I could not follow your description until I wrote it out myself--or maybe I'm still not getting it! (I added a few details likely to vary with the situation because it helped me to visualize the process.) Mark’s description was for a single rope rappel. If you have two ropes, you could do the following: 1) Mark and Jordan are at anchor A. Mark raps on two strands and fixes the pull-strand to the other party’s gear on anchor B. He then gets on the fixed strand and starts rapping if there’s enough rope to do so. 2) Then, Jordan raps both strands, arrives at anchor B and pulls the pull-strand. 3) Mark continues his rappel, arriving at an anchor C 60m below. If anchor C is unoccupied, he unties the two ropes, threads them through the anchor, and re-ties. If it’s occupied, he fixes both ropes to the other party’s gear on anchor C, hops on the other rope and continues rapping. 4) Jordan raps, arrives at anchor C, and the party on anchor B unties and tosses the rope. 5) If anchor C was occupied, Jordan raps on the strand that Mark isn’t on, and if anchor C wasn’t occupied, they’re back in position (1) again.
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Hope for Movement
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Jun 10, 2020
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USA, Europe
· Joined Aug 2019
· Points: 0
Mark Hudonwrote: What you want to do is fix your rope to their anchor, using their biners, and when both of you are down at the next anchor, they can simply untie the knot and throw your rope off. Pro pro tip. The very second the rope gets tied to their anchor, one of your team should get on it and get out of there. You both don’t need to be at the anchor to pull your rope. This avoids needing to thread your rope into their (maybe clustered) anchor. It also avoids you having to pull your rope down, the end coming up and wiping all over the place. Jordan and I use this technique a lot and we can arrive at an anchor and both be gone in about 5 minutes. Also, if you have been doing one rope raps, now you can rap two pitches and maybe miss another party on the next anchor.
Just some clarification - this is for 1 rope (60+meters) and rap stations 30m or less apart. You are saying for both you and Jordan to rap down to the occupied anchor, fix one end and one of you starts rapping on that fixed end as slack is being generated as your partner pulls the rope. So for a short time, there will be all 4 of you at that anchor (unless one from the other party is climbing). Now you can rap to either the next set of anchors at 30m, or the full 60m because you are rapping on a single-strand. If that next anchor is occupied, there is a decision to make - it might be best to stop there and re-set up because the upper party is going to drop the rope and if it is straight above the anchor that is occupied, you might not want to just drop the rope this party. I guess that is a discussion to have with them as the first rapper assesses the situation...
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