“Epic”

Harrumph.

The term “epic” has become cheap through overuse.

Per MW: “Extending beyond the usual or ordinary especially in size or scope; heroic.”

Per thousands of years of literary tradition: related to incredible feats of bravery, strength and cunning that have far-reaching ramifications for the human race.

Per QueefBurglar69 on r/climbing, et shitera: the 60-foot 5.11a mega-gnar slimestone clip-up with a five-foot runout between bolts!!!

The latter man is made of straw, mayhaps, but it still deserves to be lit aflame.

I propose that in order for the adjective “epic” to be employed in reference to a rock climbing experience, most of the following conditions must be met:

- Blood. Injury of some sort, or at least great potential for the same.
- Darkness. Preferably being benighted.
- Deprivation. Of food, water, gear or correct routefinding.
- Severity. Of weather, runout terrain, etc.
- Scope. Sorry, boulderers and single-pitchers. Epics occur in the land of Big Stone.

Please, climbing friends, let us restore value to this term that has been Red-Bulled into meaninglessness. I’ve had one epic in my life, and it wasn’t last week’s lap on Scarface in bluebird conditions.

Off rant.

Tentative example:

Old Man Route at Seneca.  You’ve forgotten half the rack, forcing you to run it out with serious fall potential, and satisfying conditions 1 and 3.  

To screw your partner and give him the hard leads, you split it into 6 pitches, satisfying condition 5. 

After starting at 5 am, you close in on the summit at 7 pm with a thunderstorm approaching, satisfying conditions 2 and 4.  

You arrive back at the car at 8:30 pm, having successfully completed an “epic trip”. 

This may inherently be a part of “scope,” but I think it has to involve an extended period of time, and oftentimes and unexpectedly long period. Someone falling on the first pitch, breaking their legs, and relatively promptly being air lifted out is a crazy (and traumatizing) experience, but I don’t think it necessarily qualifies as an “epic.” Thoughts?

Oh, Fritz. We all know it is an epic once we light up our headlamps.  :)

Given the difficulty in developing normative projects in language outside of a national academy or comprehensive educational system, perhaps it would be easier to take a more descriptive approach to the term.

Thus, if people are using the word "epic" and its usage does not meet you proposed normative standard, perhaps the wise take-away is that they are not eminently experienced; the man of straw in your example, then, already lights himself aflame.  That is to say, a folk is gonna say what she willest, but if she uses "epic" outside of that standard she has outed herself as either inexperienced, basic, or both.

Re: John

"You said a mouthful, Doc."
--Seldom Seen Smith, The Monkey Wrench Gang

F r i t z wrote: I’ve had one epic in my life, and it wasn’t last week’s lap on Scarface in bluebird conditions.

Was it, by any chance, the time you left your mountain bike at the bottom of the Black Canyon?

Rocrates wrote: Tentative example:

Old Man Route at Seneca.  You’ve forgotten half the rack, forcing you to run it out with serious fall potential, and satisfying conditions 1 and 3.  

To screw your partner and give him the hard leads, you split it into 6 pitches, satisfying condition 5. 

After starting at 5 am, you close in on the summit at 7 pm with a thunderstorm approaching, satisfying conditions 2 and 4.  

You arrive back at the car at 8:30 pm, having successfully completed an “epic trip”. 

That would be an example of an Epic Shitshow

Solitary Refinement trip report by s.price. I call that epic.

Deprivation and Scope are the Big Two here.

Lone Pine wrote:

That would be an example of an Epic Shitshow

Lone Pine wrote: Was it, by any chance, the time you left your mountain bike at the bottom of the Black Canyon?

That’s part of the story. Although, to be clear, I left the frame hidden halfway up SOFB, and the wheelset under a boulder toward the top of the tower.

Parachute Adams wrote: Solitary Refinement trip report by s.price. I call that epic.

Pour one out for Haybooner. I’m glad he shared that story with us.

epic splitter bro

TBlom wrote: epic splitter bro

I contend that "minor epic" is an appropriate adjective for semi-ironic use.

"We had a minor epic on the last route of the day, as Jimbo fell 8 times at the crux, sorry I'm late honey."
"I ran out of water on the walk out and got a little dehydrated. Minor epic."

John Reeve wrote:

That you know the difference between normative and descriptive usage of language warms the cockles of my heart. Go in peace and serve the Kor, and may your onsights at East A be as numerous as the stars of the San Juan skyline above. 

Kind of like the dudebro that was complaining about the "long run-out" between bolts....at the Canal Zone in CCC. I'm like what did he just say and then I made the mistake of saying how well bolted everything in sight was, and that if he wanted to complain about run-out he should go to JTree and climb Figures on a Landscape. 

I would say an epic doesn't necessarily have to include blood. A dropped rack on pitch 10 of anything remote could be potentially dire. No way up, no way down...and that would most probably lead to benightment, and potential for hunger, thirst and perhaps extreme discomfort.

Happened to me on Royal Arches of all climbs...took a stone to the forehead, finished the climb just in time to watch the sun set and then joined the conga line of people trying to get down. Finally huddled on a ledge until morning without food or much water. 

So basically for a climb to be epic, you need to fuck up, not really have the skills to deal with it, be miserable, get lucky, and then gloss over your ineptitude by trying to frame your poor decision-making and shitty skills as an adventure and character-building. Totally epic.

Also, if you have the headlamps it's not an epic.

Buck Rio wrote:I would say an epic doesn't necessarily have to include blood. 

I would broaden “blood” to include objective danger of bodily harm, actual or potential. If there’s not a likelihood of getting seriously hurt doing it, it’s not automatically grounds for an epic.

Example: Timewave Zero in EPC is a beautiful 2300’ bolted route, but it’s as safe as multipitch climbing gets (so long as Gumbellina Gumbletron above you doesn’t drop his fifty-foot cordalette and four steel HMS autolockers on your head, or you don’t get acute-onset giardia from mantelling onto a diarrhea-besotted ledge). Ergo, while an epic could occur on TWZ, it would not be for reasons of potential danger.

Speaking of which, my last experience on that route was memorable, but not epic, according to the aforementioned rubric. Cris and I set out to replace the fixed lines and started at 8:00pm, intending to bivy. Our drom burst atop the second pitch and we dry-bivvied and climbed the entire route with only 125ml of water each and no food (we only brought dehydrated).

- Blood: no. I got minor heatstroke on the raps, but whatever.
- Darkness: Chosen, not imposed, so no.
- Deprivation: Yes.
- Severity: Nope.- Scope: Yes.

Now, if I had gone A&Ox1 from heat exhaustion, and we had been forced to spend a second night out without food or water, and TWZ had a couple of pitches of .10R ... now yer talkin’.

Xan Calonne wrote: So basically for a climb to be epic...

No, but being miserable certainly helps.