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Why use a third hand?

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

looks like 5mm to me, especially considering it gripped on 7.8mm ropes. My 6mm cord doesn't like grabbing anything under like 9.5mm.

Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 2,419
Nick Goldsmith wrote: This is my set up as photographed today. I am Fully aware that it is not AMGA single pitch approved.  This setup absolutely works every time for me with thousands of hours in use.  No despite the fact that it is not extended per AMGA rules  and fully against AMGA rules it is attached to my leg loop instead of my belay loop I do Not go upside down when in use.  The only time I ever went upside down was when I was working under a huge roof and I fully intended to go upside down to reach a certain spot with a wire brush.   The biner is duct taped to the leg loop. Even if the plastic buckle on my leg loop broke this biner is in a closed loop and can not come off.  No the Biner is not a locker per AMGA rulze. They can pound sand.  The non locker works perfectly and the convenience of being able to quickly deploy or change number of loops far outweighs any need for a locker in this application. Photo #1 this is a fairly low angle 30m rap  on single rated  9.2mm rope.  I have a minimum number of raps around the rope. Fast smooth rap but it grabs every time I let go. The last 5 m is a somewhat dynamic grab but still grabs. It also grabs every time when  gripped  with the panic grip.  News flash. You can't death grip the auto block and let go of the brake strands at the same time. Photo #1
   In the 2nd shot we have a steep 37m rappel. Same 9.2mm rope.  I have more wraps on this one and  have complete and total control for the entire length of the rappel. It will grab instantly any time I let go.  Photo #2.
 Even the tail end of the rappel has complete grip if I let go. Only trial, error and lots of time in use will teach you how tight to wrap the rope every time for  the best combination of speed and safety for each rope combination in your quiver.  Every situation is different. The number of wraps around the rope may  change for every different rope combination and situation. In some cases I may stop mid rappel to add more wraps to increase breaking power.  There is not black and white. It is all gray but it works for me.
Does Andy T still pickin the Banjo? (not strum, DoH)
&
If I haven't said it enough ...
THANK YOU!
Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 470

you are correct it is likely 5mm????  you have to get your lengths correct so it can't get sucked into the rap device. Andy played a gig the night before. still picking the banjo and leading 5+ ice. 

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 470

So it just occurred to me that the only time I adjust the number of wraps mid pitch is on low angle slab. At the top you can barely get moveing but at the bottom it won't grip. I might add a few wraps if I want to swing over and try a move on a different climb or if the rope is in a huge tangled pile as often happens on slab.  certainly coming down grade 5 Ice  it is steep enough that the way I set it up at the top works the whole way down.

curt86iroc · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 274
Nick Goldsmith wrote: So it just occurred to me that the only time I adjust the number of wraps mid pitch is on low angle slab. At the top you can barely get moveing but at the bottom it won't grip. I might add a few wraps if I want to swing over and try a move on a different climb or if the rope is in a huge tangled pile as often happens on slab.  certainly coming down grade 5 Ice  it is steep enough that the way I set it up at the top works the whole way down.

Please don't hijack this thread. we are here to talk about how many cars one can fit in their bum...

Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

@nickgoldsmith -- Apples to oranges.  Of course you're using one for ice climbing.  Wearing gloves to rappel is tricky.

Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

@rob.calm:
"About 30 feet from the ground, the rope was piled on a ledge. She stopped on the ledge comfortably standing up. She tossed the rope down and saw it lying on the ground. She grabbed the brake side of the rope, leaned back, and fell about 20 feet before smashing violently into the wall badly fracturing her ankle.  What happened? She saw her rope lying on the ground, but what she didn’t notice was that the far end of the rope had hooked onto a gear loop on the back of her harness so that although she grabbed the brake side of the rope, it did nothing to stop her from falling as she had grabbed the rope far away from her belay device."

I really don't get this.  Can you explain more?

Dan Gozdz · · Louisville, CO · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 1
Russ Keane wrote: @rob.calm:
"About 30 feet from the ground, the rope was piled on a ledge. She stopped on the ledge comfortably standing up. She tossed the rope down and saw it lying on the ground. She grabbed the brake side of the rope, leaned back, and fell about 20 feet before smashing violently into the wall badly fracturing her ankle.  What happened? She saw her rope lying on the ground, but what she didn’t notice was that the far end of the rope had hooked onto a gear loop on the back of her harness so that although she grabbed the brake side of the rope, it did nothing to stop her from falling as she had grabbed the rope far away from her belay device."

I really don't get this.  Can you explain more?

Speculating: I'm guessing that one end was on her harness, formed a bight to the ground, and went back to the belay device. The other strand was somewhere else too. The two strands she grabbed were from the bight OR the far side of the bight and the other strand. Either way, she grabbed 2 strands but they were not the two that immediately exited the belay device. 

rob.calm · · Loveland, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 630
Russ Keane wrote: @rob.calm:
"About 30 feet from the ground, the rope was piled on a ledge. She stopped on the ledge comfortably standing up. She tossed the rope down and saw it lying on the ground. She grabbed the brake side of the rope, leaned back, and fell about 20 feet before smashing violently into the wall badly fracturing her ankle.  What happened? She saw her rope lying on the ground, but what she didn’t notice was that the far end of the rope had hooked onto a gear loop on the back of her harness so that although she grabbed the brake side of the rope, it did nothing to stop her from falling as she had grabbed the rope far away from her belay device."

I really don't get this.  Can you explain more?
OK, I’ll try.
  1. Climber was standing on a ledge about 80 feet off the ground and ready to rappel. She threw rope down the cliff.
  2. She reached a ledge about 30 feet off the ground and was able to stand on this wide ledge. The rope was piled up on this ledge. She scooped up the rope laying on the ledge and threw it off the ledge. She observed the rope reached the ground.
  3. She did not observe that a loop of the rope on the brake side was hooked over a gear loop on the back of her harness.
  4. She grabbed the brake side of the rope before continuing the rappel. However, she did not grab the rope adjacent to her belay device but grabbed the rope that hung from the gear loop. This left 15 feet or so of rope between her hand and the belay device.
  5. As a result, when she started rappelling again she went into free fall for about 15 feet before braking took effect and smashed into the wall.
Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 470

Russ. I use the autoblock all the time for the same reason that I always wear my helmet. Its routine and it keeps me prepared for anything. heck I tape my fingers exactly the same way every time I climb unless its splitter cracks where I tape my hands.  I am all about the PPPPPPP theory. Proper Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.  Going Splat is piss poor performance. 

Big B · · Reno, NV · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1

Cuz the other two are busy?!?

Tee Kay · · Seattle, WA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 110
Big B wrote: Cuz the other two are busy?!?

best answer so far

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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