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Questions About Top Roping in Joshua Tree
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Getting ready to go camp and climb in Joshua Tree at the start of April. Our group is getting a guide for at least a day or two since we're new to outdoor climbing, and have heard this is highly recommend for JT. (I believe I saw one reply of "Yer gonna die!" to someone else's topic on here about climbing first time in JT.) We're experienced top ropers in the gym, but well be taking some classes for setting anchors and some other basics of outdoor climbing. I have two questions though about TR climbing in JT though. One is regarding this site and the route descriptions, are those fairly accurate and if a route is listed as a top rope route will it at least have anchor bolts? The second question was about other supporting gear. We've got rope and we'll be picking up some basic gear for outdoor climbs: a bouldering pad (I'm hoping our group brings at least two), handful of quick draws, a second rope for setting up an anchor system, and some safety clips for tying in. Is it recommend to get Cam's or other trad gear or is that just based on the routes we decided to do? Feel free to mention some of the other essential gear just to make sure we pick it up beforehand. |
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To your first question. The route guide and description here is accurate, and pretty up to date. No. A route listed as being "TR" does not mean that it necessarily has anchor bolts. Many TR routes require a gear anchor. Second question. With the gear you have your options will be limited, and not having any cams or stoppers will definitely rule out a lot of routes, but based on the experience of your group I would recommend against buying a bunch of gear for anchor building. Go out with the guide, gain some experience, get comfortable building anchors on bolts. Recommendation. Stop by the climbing shop in town, Nomad Ventures, and ask for recommendations for routes with accessible bolted anchors. |
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If a route is listed as top rope that usually means it doesn't meander or overhang, meaning it can be top roped safely, but it does not mean it will be equipped with a bolt anchor. If there is no bolt anchor you would need to build a gear anchor, which it does not sound like something you are currently knowledgable or equipped to be doing. Another consideration is that some routes listed as top rope does not necessarily mean the top of the route is accessible without first leading a climb to get up there. Not all of the formations at JT have an easy way to scramble up, and some bolt anchors might be a little close to the edge depending on your comfort level to approach unroped to build your TR setup on. All of that said, hopefully you aren't dissuaded. Ask your guide for recommendations of routes that you can easily TR and they should be able to give you a list, and make sure you learn and practice how to build anchors, on bolts or, if you want to learn, gear (If you do want to learn to place gear make sure you dedicate time to be sure you know what you are doing. You do not want a TR anchor to fail.) If push comes to shove bouldering is great in JT. |
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Don't buy a bunch of trad gear to set up anchors unless you know how to use it. Look at the protection section on the route and see if it states bolted anchors. Most will say if they do. You also have a guide. Ask the guide to recommend an area where you can walk up and set up a TR. From what you describe, you don't seem all that experienced. What are "safety clips for tying in?" You don't clip a figure 8 to your harness, you tie a figure 8 into your harness. You don't need safety clips. Why are you bringing up a rope to set up an anchor system? You don't know how to place gear, stay off anything that doesn't have a bolts up top. Are you planning on bouldering? Why do you need bouldering pads to TR? If you do plan on bouldering, do any of you know how to spot someone outdoors. Look, I ain't saying yer gonna die, but you could get someone hurt. Maybe pitch in and get the guide for a third day. |
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When someone uses the term, "safety clips," they're probably not ready to climb on their own. |
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still some wks to early Apr, Mark. much instructional resource exists nowadays. if you haven't already, go thru Freedom Of The Hills and/or other intro climbing books and read up on the relevant sections on anchoring plus whatev else. public libraries have them too. that way you'll have some idea of concepts and procedures involved. certain aspects you might fully get right away. others you might not, but that would prompt you to ask better questions regarding those specifics during class so that you would better understand things, so you could get more out of the guided day(s). helpful to not have everything thrown at you all new all at once comes class day some odd notions and language in the initial post do cause concern. not trying to make fun of you or being mean. most wouldn't want beginner fledglings to bumble around (even after a class or two) and end up messing up and getting killed. it usu doesn't bode well when someone doesn't even know basic terminology or hadn't even taken the time to familiarize with that. guides could explain and demonstrate this and that to you. but they're not magicians who could snap their fingers and automatically make you fully understand things and instantly guarantee your full proficiency. guides do their part. you have to do yours too. much of what you gain from a class still relies on you it's a beneficial step to go take a class to get proper instructions early on. don't pressure yourself tho into setting up to climb on your own or doing that for others right away on the ensuing days. keep practicing the stuff if you feel you need to. after a class, many go home to take ample time to practice in living room or at local crag, til they've honed the new skills. some might even go climb with someone more experienced to get more feedback. one side benefit from class instructions is that afterward you'd have more capacity to tell if some "experienced" persons might be talking out of their ass. could help to tell the diff btwn someone who truly know what they're doing, versus some imbecile running clown crews hell bent on halfassing everything, like often seen on these forums |
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I hired a guide for a day for my first outdoor climbing experience in Joshua Tree a few years back. You're going to have an absolute blast! Beyond that, I would recommend doing some bouldering. My personal recommendation would be to park at Intersection Rock and head out to Voices Boulder, and other nearby fun boulders. Or just ask your guide about spots that would be appropriate given the weather and whatever your skill level is. A guide that works in the park regularly and has assessed your group's abilities will have the best recommendations for you. |
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Mark..... a few things. Sounds like a few days with a guide would be money well spent. They have gear and knowledge and you could see it (gear) in action. Don’t bring a big group to one of the 4 star- hard Top Rope climbs and tie it up with a whole bunch of noobs who can’t even do the opening moves.... pick something in the 5.5 range... seriously. The stone in Josh is not like anything found in a gym, for good reason. (Gyms don’t like blood on the floor) But the real crux you face is getting that camping spot. Have fun, be safe. |
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YGD Jtree is no place to learn how to set up top ropes. Gear/extentions/crowds/etc. If this isnt a troll post, then bouldering will be your best bet. Otherwise you're just going to waste your last day route finding and messing around with the anchor. |
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You will have fun, my advice is to spend your gear budget on more guide budget. Hire a guide as many days as you can afford and have him set ropes on some classics. I wouldn't buy cams and stoppers to make anchors because placing gear and building good TR anchors requires a fair amount of pratice to be safe. |
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Just to reiterate, novice climbers die with terrifying regularity in J-tree, "yer gonna die" is trite. but not without potential reality |
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- Xan & Ben - Thanks for tips on the route descriptions, and the top rope classification in general. We've done very little lead climbing even in the gym, so probably going to avoid anything that would require that. We're taking a class on setting anchors that's offered through our gym, but I'm guessing it's focused on the bolt anchors. If we grab additional gear for anchors it will likely be based on what was learned from that class. Bouldering and some hikes are going to be our back up plan if we didn't feel we were ready to TR without a guide. I guess sorry I said clips instead of safety webbing with a carabiner, or mentioned the secondary rope for the anchor. I thought those would be useful for setting a quad anchor from this vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9liByriQRag You can't even TR in the gym without knowing the figure 8 knot... - Sean - That was the plan. Learn as much as we can before we go, and cement it in with practice at home and the time spent with guide. Even after that, if we're not ready, then we're not ready. We can always set out on our own another time and another place. I'll check out that book. - MollyCoddled & Guy - Thanks for the route recommendations. I assumed we would drop down in route difficulty anyway, but was thinking we'd be in the range of 5.9's. I didn't think the difficulty difference would be that drastic though. We normally climb the 5.11 range, but should we still drop down to 5.5? I'll try to keep us off those coveted four stars routes. |
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As a heads up, the AMGA single pitch instructor book has an entire section on setting up TRs in Joshua tree. It’s a little more involved than you might think. YGD also, don’t use a quad. Just properly set up your master point and tie a BHK. |
Mark D wrote: Mark..... yes, get on a 5.5 first. IMHO gyms screwed up using the YDS grading system. YDS was meant to grade 3 dimensional climbing situations. These generally do not exist in the gym environment. I go climbing wit all sorts of new climbers all the time. People come from a gym background hella strong but they are “blind” because of not being exposed to real stone so they tend to miss things. This changes rapidly once you go climbing, if you’re strong and already have some guns. Whenever I go to any new venue I always pick the easiest climb with stars.... just to get the feel of the place. |
Mark D wrote: This is why gym climbers get ragged on so much. No concept of how different real rock climbing is from a bunch of plastic holds. If you’re top roping from bolts (because it sounds like you shouldn’t be building gear anchors) go for it. A 5.11 gym climb in 9 out of 10 gyms I’ve been to is 5.7 at JTree. I would also recommend spending more money on a guide than on gear. You’ll get more from it and you’ll be more likely to make it home. Im also not trying to be mean, but I think “experienced top ropers in the gym” is my new favorite phrase.
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Learn to do the basic rigging above. Bear in mind that much of the time you need to be able to place trad gear to even begin setting up your TR system. But a guide could show you the basics. |
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Top roping in JT in my opinion 95% of the time takes an expirienced skillset in being situationally aware and the ability to set up a safe system amongst vastly different setups at each individual crag. You can seek out bolted anchor TR routes with a safe scramble, you never know if those bolts will be chopped. No big deal just down climb or set up natural anchor. Also what was said in posts above is that lots of climbs listed as TR are only accessible if you lead the nearby route to arrive at either a bolted anchor or a gear anchor location. As far as gear; long pieces of cordalette or an extra static rope, a solid rack to get you up the climbs, and the knowledge to set up a gear TR safely in a highly variable environment. In my opinion with what you described as your experience I would either just have the guide, or stick to the very few climbs available that you can scramble up, set up a very simply anchor on bolts, which quite frankly there isn't a whole lot of options. |
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Mark..... 3 quintessential Josh climbs, have your guide lead them, then have every member of your group follow, a introduction to Josh. These are not Top Rope climbs, but plenty of room on top so everyone can enjoy the view. The Eye The upper Right Ski Track Overhang Bypass All are within sight of each other.... when I introduce folks to climbing I go down the line top to bottom, then do a rap, then it’s time for lunch, with some new rock climbers. Then go climb Headstone in Ryan CG. Let us know how it went.... with a TR. Have fun |
Mark D wrote: anchoring class out at JTree taught by gym staff? or by a pro guide from an outside company specially arranged by the gym? |
Guy Keesee wrote: Um.... no. I have not been on the Eye, but all of these are trad routes and Overhang Bypass is 2 pitches. Not good for a group, and especially not good for a group of gym climbers. Headstone is one of the most popular rocks in the Park, an absolute classic, but it requires a leader with a good head and with only 3 moderate climbs and 1 set of bolts, a large group will monopolize the route for the full day and won't get a lot of climbing in anyway. |
