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First Ascent...seriously?!?!


Original Post
Only, Locals · · #iGREWhereUflewHERE · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,160

I’ve been thinking on this in general, and specifically how it pertains to an online resource like MP.  Currently, information sharing is easy.  Spray is king.  New routes or problems being established right now (genuinely or otherwise) are easy to track, for the most part.  These days, even the most “low key” bros out there, as a rule, lay down some kind of record of the climbs they believe are theirs to claim.

This hasn’t always been the case, and there are many routes out there that have been climbed years ago that are being reborn as FAs by stoked climbers today.  Many of these guys/gals that actually did the route first (and are still with us) don’t care, but I’ll wager most of them do, based on conversation and observation. 

All that said, my question is:  consider MP…how many FA credits on this site are bogus, do you think?  Percentage-wise, I’d say about 25% if I had to wager.

Followup questions is:  does it even matter?

MojoMonkey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 66
Addem Bursh wrote:

Followup questions is:  does it even matter?

Holy hell yes! I'm contacting my representatives now!

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20
Addem Bursh wrote:

Followup questions is:  does it even matter?

For trad climbs - name of FA might be needed if addition of any permanent gear is required - rap rings or anchors.
For sport climbs - only matters who bolted it - if there are issues, the bolter would be the person to approve any changes.

Paul Morrison · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 0
Addem Bursh wrote:

Followup questions is:  does it even matter?

It matters to the extent that any post containing both the words "Bursh" and "seriously" gives one cause to ponder, however briefly.

Only, Locals · · #iGREWhereUflewHERE · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,160

For trad climbs - name of FA might be needed if addition of any permanent gear is required - rap rings or anchors.

That's a good point.  What about the pure need to be given the credit due?



It matters to the extent that any post containing both the words "Bursh" and "seriously" gives one cause to ponder, however briefly.

And this, is why you have my heart, Paul.  Well played.


Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 380
amarius wrote:
For sport climbs - only matters who bolted it - if there are issues, the bolter would be the person to approve any changes.

Ok, if it only matters who bolted it, please tell me who bolted the Golden Ticket or Lucifer at the RRG.  Longstanding projects are usually not sent by those who bolted them.

Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 380
Addem Bursh wrote:

Followup questions is:  does it even matter?

It matters enough for you to devote an entire thread to it.

Only, Locals · · #iGREWhereUflewHERE · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,160
Pnelson wrote:

It matters enough for you to devote an entire thread to it.

Oh man Pnelson with the snark this morning!  Respect!

I'm looking for other opinions, braj.  Here's how a thread works - you'll probably find this useful as an Admin for your near and distant future internet endeavors.

1. OP posts a thread.  Topic is usually some sort of spray, or a idea or question for discussion.

2. Discussion ensues.


Cheers!

DMT

Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 380
Addem Bursh wrote:

Oh man Pnelson with the snark this morning!  Respect!

I'm looking for other opinions, braj.  Here's how a thread works - you'll probably find this useful as an Admin for your near and distant future internet endeavors.

1. OP posts a thread.  Topic is usually some sort of spray, or a idea or question for discussion.

2. Discussion ensues.


Cheers!

DMT

1. Morning?  You must be on the west coast; I already finished working for the day.  

2. As for contributions to the thread, yeah, I think identifying FA's and developers matters.  Sport, trad, bouldering, whatevah.

3.Are you really DMT?  



NorCalNomad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 105

FYP

My question is:  Consider MP…how many people actually give a crap about FA credits?  Percentage-wise, I’d say about 5% if I had to wager.

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20
Pnelson wrote:

Ok, if it only matters who bolted it, please tell me who bolted the Golden Ticket or Lucifer at the RRG.  Longstanding projects are usually not sent by those who bolted them.

The Golden Ticket was developed by  Kenny Barker. It was FAed by AdamT, perhaps he even hung a couple of times on it. Then AdamO onsighted it, and gave a downgrade.

What is the point, you may ask? Well, Adam Ondra spent 15 minutes on it, it took him a plane ticket, and car ride to get it done. Kenny spent his time developing the route, every climber visiting the Red can enjoy it to the extent of their abilities. 



Only, Locals · · #iGREWhereUflewHERE · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,160

3.Are you really DMT?  



My name isn't DMT, I thought


"Cheers!


DMT"


was some sort of internet sign off.  I always see this guy put it at the end of his posts, thought I'd give it a whirl.

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Technically all the FA on Mountain Project are Aleks right? What is it? All your bold flashes belong to me or something?

Daniel Joder · · Barcelona, Spain · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 0

Trad first ascents? if there is any doubt, write in either Layton Kor or Fred Beckey as first ascensionists…

Only, Locals · · #iGREWhereUflewHERE · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,160
NorCalNomad wrote:


FYP

My question is:  Consider MP…how many people actually give a crap about FA credits?  Percentage-wise, I’d say about 5% if I had to wager.


I've seen some corrections made in the comment sections on routes here and there.  I think some use it as a database to record their claim, just in case someone comes along and "discovers" the climb for themselves in real life, they theoretically could come here and see it's already been done.

I appreciate the sport responses, but I guess this is more geared towards trad and boulder, where it's not always clear if it's even been done, ever.

Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 380
Addem Bursh wrote:

My name isn't DMT, I thought


"Cheers!


DMT"


was some sort of internet sign off.  I always see this guy put it at the end of his posts, thought I'd give it a whirl.

Haha!  Awesome.  We should all start signing off like that.


Cheers,

DMT

kendallt · · Tahoe · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 98

This hasn’t always been the case, and there are many routes out there that have been climbed years ago that are being reborn as FAs by stoked climbers today.  Many of these guys/gals that actually did the route first (and are still with us) don’t care, but I’ll wager most of them do, based on conversation and observation. 

There's climbs I've done that I can only imagine have been done before, but there's no record of it.

Usually I consider putting it on mountain project as a new route, but then... someone before me probably left it for me to have a 'first ascent experience', why not let the next person have that too? The exception is if it's actually a "good" climb, then I think it's probably worth documenting it for the community.

ViperScale . · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 240

Really depends on the area I won't go into details but I know of people who had death threats for saying they were going to put a guide book together for some local climbing areas. So in that case getting FAs for climbs in that area may not be so simple since unless you are a local even finding the climbs will not be easy.

You also have the issue with when say a guide book for an area comes out they try to do as much research as they can but it was funny how when one guidebook I got for an area finally came out the problem names had been changed from what most of us called some of the problems. So if route names are getting lost it is always a chance the FA was forgotten too.

I could claim FA for some random boulder problems because I cleaned moss off of it so I would assume noone had climbed it before but it may not be true.

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,655
ViperScale . wrote:

 I won't go into details but I know of people who had death threats for saying they were going to put a guide book together for some local climbing areas.

Death threats?  Hahaha.  Not saying you're wrong, but good heavens.  That's more than extreme.  I know there was some pushback when Erica put the Piedmont guide together, but I'd hate to think that she received death threats.  I hope that's not what you're referring to.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,470

What truly makes me laugh is the secrecy hogs that climb routes for decades, keep their routes to themselves, and then get all butthurt when someone else comes along claiming the FA. 


Can't have dat glory if you don't share, homey. 

Big B · · Sin City, NV · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1

Lol

Burch=DingusMilkToast

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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