Possible move to AZ

I'm interested in moving to either Tucson or Phoenix in the fall. I have work available in both cities so that's not an issue. My question is, which city will provide the most vibrant downtown, walkability and ample nearby climbing opportunities? They both seem pretty close to fantastic natural resources so I'm having trouble deciding.

Great question. Caveat: I live in Phoenix. I don't really think either town is very 'walkable.' I feel Phoenix has more to offer as far as an urban place is concerned, but I'm biased because I live in Phoenix. Folks in Tucson will say otherwise so take it with a large grain of salt either way. It is very hard to beat Mt Lemmon for all year round climbing. Probably over 4000 routes on the mountain and, frankly, Phoenix has nothing quite like it locally. Also you've got The east & west Stronghold an hour away with great granite crags (my fav place in AZ for climbing.) Mendoza canyon with 800-1000' granite domes about 60 minutes SW of Tucson and magical Babo just south of that.

Phoenix has lots of climbing going for it. The McDowells offer 'old school' granite climbing. The Superstitions have crags from 250-600' on predominately volcanic type rock with lots of adventure. Granite Mountain is up Prescott way about 90 minutes NW of Phoenix proper with superb granite and old school trad ratings. Prescott has a number of smaller crags like Thumb Butte, the Sullies and The Promised Land. The Homestead isn't too far from Phoenix. Isolation Canyon is about an hour's drive up AZ 87 and has at least 150-200 climbs in a nice wilderness setting. Paradise Forks is about 3 1/2 hours up near Williams AZ with primo crack climbs. Then there is the Overlook with more crack climbs at the head of Oak Creek Canyon. The Pit for limestone sport climbs is up near Flag. If you live in Tucson, you have to add about two hours to the Phoenix times and the reverse for Tucson destinations if you live in Phoenix.

Tucson has a smaller city aspect than Phoenix. Hopefully this helps, but it might just confuse you as to which way to go. Pick the job opportunity with the best benefits package and whether its Phoenix or Tucson, you've positioned yourself either way for some great climbing here in wonderful Arizona. Just remember, IT'S A DRY HEAT!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks so much for the follow up. I've got a pretty tough decision to make, so it sounds like it might come down to the job situation. I'm an RN so I should be marketable in either city.

Unless you have reason to- don't forget about Flagstaff. A lot more closer(and better) climbing nearby than either tucson or phoenix. It also has a more walk-able downtown. Granted it is smaller and more expensive living than either of the other two.

It might be useful to talk to Geir.

He is a prolific climber, an RN, lives in Tucson but climbs all over the state.

mountainproject.com/scripts…

Best,

Scott Mc

Tucson has more routes on Lemmon than all the climbs within 50 miles of Flag. Most climbing around Flag is not climbable in many winter months. Lemmon affords climbing all year depending upon how high or low you go on the mountain. Flag is walkable but expensive.

True, but Flag is close to Paradise Forks which for me trumps Lemmon climbing. It is also closer to Red Rocks which trumps Lemmon climbing. And I disagree about lack of winter climbing in Flag. I've climbed all winter before. Overlook and Pit face south and get sun all day.

A vote for Tucson. The granite on Lemmon is a lot more fun(and there is a lot more of it) than anything around phoenix. Cochise stronghold is badass. For limestone, same distance as phoenix from the Homestead but closer to the Dry. You can even drive up to queen creek (only a half hour farther than from phx) until the mine turns it into a hole in the ground.

Phoenix is the hole in the donut, nothing great there (tucson as a city is way more interesting), but everything in the state is 2-3 hours away. So you can climb everywhere (e.g. winslow and flagstaff areas), but none of it is close.

I'm a transplant to Tucson and I would take this place over Phoenix any day of the week. Mt Lemmon is right next door, lots of biking, and the downtown is decent.

If you can get Flagstaff then go for it. I never visited Flagstaff but being so close to Red Rocks, Moab, and South Western Colorado is a good deal.

Phoenix has a better cultural environment than Tucson in my opinion. We have the very nice Phoenix Art Museum, the Heard Museum of Native American culture/art; The Musical Instrument Museum, Sci/Tech Museum; also, if it floats your boat, three pro sports team (Tucson has none); the Botanical Garden. I will say, I always felt Tucson was bereft of much urban culture. I can't speak to its nightlife as I don't live there. Phoenix has a crummy music scene for such a large town. I tried to be nice about Tucson in my original post, but since it is getting the run down from someone down Tucson way, I have to defend it. Tucson visually seems like a strip mall in the entire downtown. Also, if you are into mountain biking, Phoenix and Scottsdale and nearby areas really are much better than anything Tucson area has to offer in that regard, and I've ridden in many areas both south, central and northern AZ, including the 24 Hours in the Old Pueblo.

Anyway, there will always be arguments between which is better, Phoenix or Tucson. That fact will never change...its rather funny how that all works.

Tradster wrote:Tucson has more routes on Lemmon than all the climbs within 50 miles of Flag. Most climbing around Flag is not climbable in many winter months.

More isn't necessarily better. Flag may not have the 2,000 routes that Lemmon has but Flag has higher quality climbing. I have lived in both Flag and Tucson for 5 years. Some Flag crags are climbable in winter and when it's really cold we just drive 45 minutes to Sedona.

Tucson is a way, way better place to live than Phoenix! I love Tucson as a city. Downtown is very bike and walking friendly and if you live centrally, you don't really need a car very often.

I lived in Arizona for 14 years and can't say any thing good about either city. And during monsoon season it is anything but a dry heat.

I live in Flagstaff and have spent time in both Phoenix and Tucson. Personally, I hate Phoenix... it's a big, nasty, ugly city and most of the climbing in the immediate area is really not that good, although I've heard a lot of great things about the Homestead. I actually really dig Tucson and could live there if it weren't for the hot summers (although I'd probably move there if I absolutely had too). I think the only thing better about Phoenix than Tucson is that you are closer to Flagstaff, NV, UT, etc.... The climbing on Lemmon is great and Cochise Stronghold is pretty incredible. I kind of like the funky vibe Tucson has going as well. The caveat here is I really don't like big cities, so if that's your thing then you might find Phoenix bearable. In my house we refer to it as Intestine 17 for a reason!

Phoenix vs. Tucson....... There is really no question. You may as well be asking us if we'd prefer living in Hell or Tucson.

-The climbing is better
-Access to the outdoors is WAY better
-And there is plenty of culture to be had

Many thumbs up for Tucson. I do love Phoenix when, and only when, there is little traffic on my way north to Flagstaff.

Luke Bertelsen wrote:Phoenix vs. Tucson....... There is really no question. You may as well be asking us if we'd prefer living in Hell or Tucson. -The climbing is better -Access to the outdoors is WAY better -And there is plenty of culture to be had Many thumbs up for Tucson. I do love Phoenix when, and only when, there is little traffic on my way north to Flagstaff.

This is true but Satan's anal cavity is more central to everything else in the state. So if you don't end up hanging yourself do to heatstroke I would do Phoenix. On the other hand if you don't mind the drive Toocsie is pretty sweet, both have good communities. In my opinion though Phoenix has better training facilities both public and private, plus a new ropes gym on the way.

i live in phx. both have pros and cons. lots of good climbing in arizona. nothing is particularly world class though.

tucson has more climbing within a 1.5hrs. ( s az vs phoenix area)

phoenix has more climbing within 2-4 hrs. (prescott, sedona, flag, j tree, tahquitz, red rock, everything in southern arizona)....i liked the donut analogy...

phoenix has a bigger/better airport with more direct flights. if you like to fly around the country and internationally a couple times a year this is a pretty nice perk.

tucson has 1 gym, phoenix has 6.

phoenix has better mountain biking, tucson has better road biking.

tucson is ~5 degrees cooler in the summer.

tucson is "cooler," but phx is probably underrated in that regard. if people only considered the tempe-downtown phx-midtown-arcadia-s scottsdale "chunk" of the phoenix metro, and discarded the suburban sprawl, it would be quite different.

Thanks everyone for the great responses!

jgfox wrote:I'm a transplant to Tucson and I would take this place over Phoenix any day of the week. Mt Lemmon is right next door, lots of biking, and the downtown is decent. If you can get Flagstaff then go for it.

+1

Not to mention Phoenix heat. Ugh... I'll take Tucson over Phx in midsummer any day. No climbing is worth that hell. Worst part is that it doesn't cool off at night bc of all the concrete and asphalt. 1am and over 100 outside.. bleh!

Scott M. McNamara wrote:It might be useful to talk to Geir. He is a prolific climber, an RN, lives in Tucson but climbs all over the state. mountainproject.com/scripts… Best, Scott Mc

Careful with that one. He doesn't actually live in Tucson. He lives in a small cave west of the San Escarabajo mountains and lives off of tree bark and moth larvae. He communicates in short muffled grunts and bleats but once you have some context, it's not hard to figure out what he's trying to say.

Bring climbing gear for payment and avoid eye contact. If you do feed him, do so from a flat, face-up palm (don't curl your fingers). Wear muted colors - nothing bright or shiny and no sudden movements (raised-arm gestures, etc).

This all may seem tedious but it's very well worth the effort. He's a remarkable, accomplished climber and can teach you volumes about arid climate survival.

Daryl Allan wrote: Careful with that one. He doesn't actually live in Tucson. He lives in a small cave west of the San Escarabajo mountains and lives off of tree bark and moth larvae. He communicates in short muffled grunts and bleats but once you have some context, it's not hard to figure out what he's trying to say. Bring climbing gear for payment and avoid eye contact. If you do feed him, do so from a flat, face-up palm (don't curl your fingers). Wear muted colors - nothing bright or shiny and no sudden movements (raised-arm gestures, etc). This all may seem tedious but it's very well worth the effort. He's a remarkable, accomplished climber and can teach you volumes about arid climate survival.

I nominate this for post of the year.

Also, I'm biased, but +1 for Tucson. It's secretly one of the best climbing towns in the country. Lovely people, plenty of climbing, and nothing is crowded. I've had to wait for a climb maybe once or twice in 5 years and I could have easily found a different one within 10 minutes if I had wanted.

Full disclosure I haven't lived in AZ in a decade.
That being said I was raised in phoenix, and if you like driving endlessly through a concrete purgatory composed of non-descript beige buildings which house various iterations of home depot, bed baths and beyond, chipotle and mcdonalds, phoenix is an awesome town. If you even remotely care about anything other than the aforementioned abominations of a once beautiful valley with a unique biosphere, phoenix is the single worst fucking town I have ever been to(that is a very mild exaggeration, and wouldn't be at all had I never gone through the central valley of ca).

Tucson is pretty much whatever in my book, thereby making it about infinitely better than Phoenix.

As far as climbing goes there is some quality stuff in the mcdowells, and you aren't too far from sedona and the prescott area.

However with its proximity to mt lemon and the stronghold the climbing perspective is a bit of a no-brainer as well.