Flogging your meat ... with SCIENCE

climbing friend,

I have wondered for great interest when, if you have the sexual frustration necessary to hangboard and utilize spreadsheets, is it better to do max single crushing hangs, or repeater style workout?

Many peoples they say you must do maximum crushing single hangs for absolute strength, and repeater for power endurance mighty oak style and hypertrophy. However, through magic of tubes of internet, I enjoy this scientific literature stating that peoples training with higher volume at 30% 1 RM, they enjoy roughly same meat-enlarging-boosting hypertrophy and strength gains as those training with lower volume 80% 1 RM:

jap.physiology.org/content/…

"Perhaps the most interesting finding from our work is that
hypertrophy in the 80%-3 and 30%-3 conditions was equivalent,
which is in contrast to the range of lifting intensities
usually prescribed to promote muscle hypertrophy"

"when a submaximal
contraction is sustained, motor units that were initially
recruited will fatigue (produce less force) or cease firing
completely necessitating the recruitment of additional motor
units (15) to sustain force generation. In this way, as the
repetitions at lighter loads are repeated, the point of failure/
fatigue ultimately necessitates near maximal motor unit recruitment
to sustain muscle tension (16). Thus relatively lighter
loads lifted to the point of failure would result in a similar
amount of muscle fiber activation compared with heavier loads
lifted to failure"

However, it still appears deadly hammer attack sharks with lasers max crushing single hangs may be slightly better than puny weak arm repeaters:

"our results are actually
congruent with a number of other lines of evidence showing
that lifting lighter loads, so long as fatigue is induced, leads to
roughly equivalent hypertrophy and strength gains"

"The increase in 1RM strength was greater in the
80%-1 and 80%-3 conditions compared with the 30%-3 condition"

Hangboarding can only lead to more sexual frustration when said member of the opposite sex sees you doing said ridiculous activity.

Freesoloing is the only way to alleviate sexual frustration.

Joe Campbell wrote:Hangboarding can only lead to more sexual frustration when said member of the opposite sex sees you doing said ridiculous activity. Freesoloing is the only way to alleviate sexual frustration.

Climbing friend,.

but what about when your special friend of opposite sex, they see your chiseled abs, stunning features, and sculpted guns flexing down on the hangboard?

Seth Jones wrote:i like to huck my meat...

I like to beat my meat :) repeater endurance mighty oak style not single crushing!

Aleks Zebastian wrote: but what about when your special friend of opposite sex, they see your chiseled abs, stunning features, and sculpted guns flexing down on the hangboard?

You let them hang off your considerable neck meat while proclaiming they are as light as feather. Myah?

Seth Jones wrote: Ever hucked your meat while beating your meat? That'll release some sexual frustration.

I uploaded it on YouTube! Search jizzing while whizzing

Joe Campbell wrote:Hangboarding can only lead to more sexual frustration when said member of the opposite sex sees you doing said ridiculous activity. Freesoloing is the only way to alleviate sexual frustration.

Climbing friend,

Your hangboarding may increase the your crushing strength, but that time would better be spent doing the climbing of real rocks. On the real climbing rocks you will develop the same strength of guns while also improving other skills such looking for and reading holds, route finding, head game etc. These skills you will need for bold satisfactory flash, especially when forearms are not refreshed at crux.

It is better, then, to wang slap more often than just once?

climbing friend,

always. and may you back up your wang slap by posting video of hucking massive neck meat.

Aleks, I have seen the same info in the physiology text I've been touting......

Both high rep/low intensity and low rep/high intensity training can give similar results.
There does appear to be some specificity effect- higher 1 RM results with low reps, better endurance with high reps, but both can lead to hypertrophy and increased strength.

I don't know which direction you are heading- a background of low reps now trying high or vice versa.

My personal experience, going from a long time doing intermediate range reps (6 x 7/3 a la RCTM) is that low reps require an immediate "try hard" approach, while high reps have a different "keep trying for that last couple of seconds even though I'm not going to complete the set anyway" mindset. And failing on almost every set is tough mentally, at least for me.

Anyway, good luck with your training and have fun.

Mark E Dixon wrote:My personal experience.

Mark, you seem like a much more meticulous person than me. Since finger strength training is overall not too time consuming, the interesting question for us is strength gain vs recovery time. What have you noticed so far? Obviously you do more work w/ repeaters (& probably need that additional work to achieve the same hypertrophy), and maybe a little more time (but not enough to sweat the difference when warmup is factored in).

How do your joints/ligaments/tendons feel? Less/more sore with the higher load but less work? That sure seems like the limiting factor to me.

Edited to add: the forearm load of the 2 definitely feels different for me: high load (especially campusing) makes the middle portion of the forearm very tight/sore, more endurance based produces the typical "pump" close to the elbow.

reboot wrote: Mark, you seem like a much more meticulous person than me. Since finger strength training is overall not too time consuming, the interesting question for us is strength gain vs recovery time. What have you noticed so far? Obviously you do more work w/ repeaters (& probably need that additional work to achieve the same hypertrophy), and maybe a little more time (but not enough to sweat the difference when warmup is factored in). How do your joints/ligaments/tendons feel? Less/more sore with the higher load but less work? That sure seems like the limiting factor to me. Edited to add: the forearm load of the 2 definitely feels different for me: high load (especially campusing) makes the middle portion of the forearm very tight/sore, more endurance based produces the typical "pump" close to the elbow.

Don't be fooled, I'm not very meticulous! More of a big picture sort of person, I believe.

Not sure I can answer your question with any insight.
I have done repeaters for many years off and on, almost all 6 x 7/3. Definitely on a plateau as far as finger strength, so needed to try something new.
So last winter I decided to add max hangs, but did it in a linear periodization schedule, 9 grips, excluding pinches, with 6 weeks of 3 x 8/4 (two sets), then 6 weeks of 2 x 8/4 (two sets), then 6 weeks of 1 x 8 seconds (three sets.)
I was unwilling to give up higher rep sets though, so would follow the max hang sets on the same day with a periodized schedule using the same grips, one set each, 9 weeks 9 x 7/3, then 9 weeks of 6 x 7/3.
So the entire workout takes about two hours. Max hangs first, then repeaters. Maybe another 30 minutes with the pinches too.

My sense is that it takes longer to recover from the repeaters. I don't have any particular trouble with aches and pains, although at the end of a session the intrinsic muscles in my hands feel pretty tired. The repeaters do give me more of a pump in my forearms.

I can usually recover within 48 hours, although 72 hours is better. But I only rest that long if I have to work and can't climb/train. I can actually climb the same day (I had done a finger session yesterday morning when I saw you at the gym, for example.) But I definitely am not at my strongest!

For next winter I'd really like to add a beastmaker routine and am thinking about doing something crazy like a 12 x 7/3 protocol. This would be pretty close to a metabolic HIIT workout, and should also promote hypertrophy if sets are taken to failure. I did a brief 12 x 6/4 series a few years ago and didn't see a lot of results, but it might not have been a long enough trial.

Joe Campbell wrote: Freesoloing is the only way to alleviate sexual frustration.

+1

Joe Campbell wrote: Freesoloing is the only way to alleviate sexual frustration.

I most definitely agree.

Joe Campbell wrote: Freesoloing is the only way to alleviate sexual frustration.

I wouldn't know. I'm not a player I just f*ck a lot.

Mark E Dixon wrote:Aleks, I have seen the same info in the physiology text I've been touting...... Both high rep/low intensity and low rep/high intensity training can give similar results. There does appear to be some specificity effect- higher 1 RM results with low reps, better endurance with high reps, but both can lead to hypertrophy and increased strength. I don't know which direction you are heading- a background of low reps now trying high or vice versa. My personal experience, going from a long time doing intermediate range reps (6 x 7/3 a la RCTM) is that low reps require an immediate "try hard" approach, while high reps have a different "keep trying for that last couple of seconds even though I'm not going to complete the set anyway" mindset. And failing on almost every set is tough mentally, at least for me. Anyway, good luck with your training and have fun.

climbing friend,

thank you for your informations. perhaps utilize your spreadhseetssssssss and conduct controlled 1 man trial, seeing which method will enlargen your strong meat on forearm to greater heights.

whyyyyy do you enjoy the repeaters? it seemssss like the max crushing hang they take less time and may be providing similar resultssss, also train your max crushing intensity of bold flash type.

reboot wrote: You let them hang off your considerable neck meat while proclaiming they are as light as feather. Myah?

climbing friend,

most impressive, you surely have some good way with the special lady friend.

climbing friend,

blog.trango.com/review-of-t…

"If you want to improve your 1 Rep Max for a 5 second dead hang, training for 8 weeks with 3-5 sets of 1, 10-second rep (with 3 minutes rest between sets) is superior to training for 8 weeks with 3-5 sets of 4-5, 10-second reps (with 1 minute rest between sets). [Ref. “Comparison of the effects of three hangboard training programs on maximal finger strength in rock climbers” by E Lopez-Rivera & JJ Gonzalez-Badillo]"

How may you be accessing this eva lopez research paper.

also the brothers crushing anderson they are saying they joke with eva lopez about internet comments on whose program is better, ha ha, ho ho, but we all know for serious one program would be being superior to the other for long term maximum crushing strength and ultimate climbing performance! which one is it?!?

I know I am already so strong in the finger that I am breaking several keyboards each week passing just from typing, but I still would be most curious on these answers.