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Leave the bolted anchors there. |
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Jesus Killis...let it go man |
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Sounds like three different issues here. |
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YAAAAWWWNNNNN, Good lord Killis. Would you post a pic of Eva or something. I think you like to argue for arguments sake. Which makes you very, whats the word I am looking for??? Redundant. Is it cold down there or something? |
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u mad bro |
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I prefer the bolts. |
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My take is: |
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My thought is that you have a very leading narrative style which makes it impossible for anyone to believe you actually care about any thoughts other than those that agree with yours. |
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+1 mike. I think the trees are more important than a few holes in the rock. Old tat is way worse than bolts. How is rapping off a tree a better experience than rapping off bolts? Many of the bolted anchors in the story don't sound too good though. Killis do you like trolling grandma's quilting site? |
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Mike Anderson wrote:My thought is that you have a very leading narrative style which makes it impossible for anyone to believe you actually care about any thoughts other than those that agree with yours. You are describing the situation on a popular route in gumby land, err, I mean Red Rocks. If you want unspoiled adventure, there is plenty to be had right up I-15. Just curious, do you complain about the seat belts on the Dumbo ride at Disney Land too?Couldn't agree more. You are letting a few bolts that are half an inch wide on rock thats over 1,000 feet tall get your panties in a bunch? How many bolts are already on DOWT? 8 more is some kind of travesty? Talk about first world problems, only climbers would make such a big deal out of something so insignificant. Find something more worthwhile to expend your energy on... like finding more face palm pictures cause thats how I am feeling right now. |
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tim naylor wrote:+1 mike. I think the trees are more important than a few holes in the rock. Old tat is way worse than bolts. How is rapping off a tree a better experience than rapping off bolts? Many of the bolted anchors in the story don't sound too good though. Killis do you like trolling grandma's quilting site?+1 I've found a ton of ratty webbing for anchors at red rocks. It seems a lot of people don't ever remove it but just add their own. I'm all for bolts, less visible and won't kill the trees. |
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David Sahalie wrote:so, let me get this straight: wrapping multiple slings around a tree, the petrochemicals used to make the slings fading in the sun and turning into tat in less than is year, the slings strangling the tree flow of water and nutrients (yep, it all happens on the outer layer, is better than... several ounces of sand removed (aka rock in red rocks), and steel (non oil) is used as a semi-permanent solution? ... just because the shininess of bolts burns your eyes like permadraws? ... mmm, yeah, sounds like severe case of white people problems.+1 again. First world white people problems Killis! Go cry somewhere else. |
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i'm not condoning it in any way but i would say that it is a push back in the wrong direction to remove the bolts now simply because trees are so cool when they live on a cliff... i would say someone should clean up the tat from the trees. i think we'll see more and more and more and more and more climbers coming here over the coming decades and i think all those trees should be thought about and preserved. it doesn't bother me to see a camouflaged bolt anchor on a descent that is helping trees out. |
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Doubt this was the response he was expecting! Im sure he is still right in his own mind though... |
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so much bait in the water... Why do you even ask people for their opinions? |
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I would agree with Josh that I think bolted rap stations make better sense than slinging trees or boulders. Properly placed modern bolts are safe, reliable, and will last a good 10 years and probably much longer. Rope and webbing while typically bomber when first placed, can deteriorate quickly, especially in high UV, can be easily damaged by rodents or mechanical abrasion, and in the best of conditions only has a lifespan of a year or two when exposed to the elements. |
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Leave the rap bolts. |
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Doug Foust wrote:I would agree with Josh that I think bolted rap stations make better sense than slinging trees or boulders. Properly placed modern bolts are safe, reliable, and will last a good 10 years and probably much longer. Rope and webbing while typically bomber when first placed, can deteriorate quickly, especially in high UV, can be easily damaged by rodents or mechanical abrasion, and in the best of conditions only has a lifespan of a year or two when exposed to the elements. Plus if it looks sketchy, people tend to add additional webbing without removing the old and we end up with a big mess of tat until Killis or someone else cleans it up. Let's hope that the wilderness bolting ban will finally be lifted this year.Yes but... First there is the "properly placed" proviso, which simply defines any actual problems out of existence. Killis mentioned one set of bolts that are visibly not properly placed, and then there are placements that are bad but not so visible. Those placements will not last for ten years, but often can't be easily inspected as webbing can. Then there is the fact webbing in a bad place or in bad condition can be cut down. Back-country bolts on descents are not going to be inspected and maintained the way they would be on boulders in Calico Hills. Chances are at least some of them will become dangerous, and unlike webbing, their integrity or lack of it will not be visible. One of the especially unpleasant aspects of retrobolting back country descents that were perfectly viable without bolts is that some (hopefully but not verifiably competent) "public spirited" individual unilaterally makes decisions for the entire community. You leave some webbing in a stupid place, no problem---it is easily removed and no trace remains. Bolts are another matter altogether. Some people have (very prematurely) referred to a consensus about leaving the bolts. What about the consensus about retroactively placing the descent bolts---does that matter? Finally, none of the bolting supporters has addressed the third item in Killis' list: bolting back-country scrambles. This isn't a matter of replacing tree anchors with bolts. This is a matter of replacing ordinary easy downclimbing with bolted rappels. I'm curious to hear whether the bolting supporters think it is fine to bolt up a scramble that had been regularly traversed without any anchors. |
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R-gold , you should get into the discussion on Mtn Proj about the bolts popping up on the West Slabs of Mt. Olypus in Salt Lake city. Having done this 2000 ft slab numerous times I think its ridiculous to have any bolts on the thing for many reasons. I also have done Dream of wild turkeys(15 years ago and I dont remember any trees) and can say that getting down from that without bolts would be really tough plus that specific canyon is littered with bolts anyways. Trees on cliffs in the desert dont have an easy time and even non stainless bolts can last an easy 20 or more years in the right conditions. I have no idea how old the rusty and bent 1/4" bolts were when we did Prince of Darkness but I dont remember seeing any empty holes and I surely clipped all of those pieces of shit. |
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y u mad |