Bolt Length

I have recently purchased a hand drill after doing a lot of research. I am not intending on bolting any purely sport routes with it but am hoping to use it for anchors on trad routes or the occasional piece of pro on a blank section.

I am going to be drilling into hard granite and was wondering what length of bolt is considered safe. I saw a lot of different answers all over the internet. I will be using Fixe Wedge Bolts (I ordered a drill package), and they give you 4 3/8" x 3 1/2" bolts and 6 3/8" x 2 1/4" bolts. I feel completely fine with the 3 1/2", especially in granite, but the 2 1/4" bug me out a bit. Should they be safe in this type of rock or should I just use them for practice (which I was planning to do)?

Thanks

If you have to ask on a public internet forum...

Everything I've read says the shorter ones are fine in granite.

Yarp wrote:If you have to ask on a public internet forum...

I don't see how asking for a second opinion is an issue. If one doesn't personally know people who bolt, why not ask others who may have experience?

2.5" in Granite is perfect.

BASE, I have 2 1/4" not 2 1/2", and are you saying perfect for all types (anchors, etc.)

Typically in granite (and many types of rock) the anchor bolts are no different than lead bolts. The hangers might be different so you can rap on them.

As for the length, I'd simply ask the manufacturer. They obviously make different lengths for a reason. I'm sure they'd be willing to share those reasons...

I hate to ask, but 'anchors on trad routes' and 'occasional blank spot' are not referring to existing, established climbs?

Good call on asking the manufacturer, I thought of it and tried to email fixe but the address I tried bounced back to me.

As for established climbs. No, I plan on putting them on new routes. I wouldn't tamper with a route I know to be or suspect to be established already. I'm only planning on putting in top anchors if it can save some clifftop vegetation and an occasional rap station for crags with heinous bushwhack walkoffs.

Someone got back to me from Fixe...

Me:
I wanted to inquire as to the safety of using the 3/8" x 2 1/4" bolts. Will this length be safely applied in granite?

Fixe:
it should do the job quite well in any solid stone

DWABS wrote: I don't see how asking for a second opinion is an issue. If one doesn't personally know people who bolt, why not ask others who may have experience?

Because you shouldn't be bolting anything unless you've been taught how to do it by someone who knows how. PERIOD. If you don't know what you are doing you are guaranteed to fuck it up the first few times. Your mistakes will be there. Forever.

How hard of a concept is this?

The short ones should be fine if the rock is good and they are placed well, especially if it is slabby. If you are bolting in New England, don't use them unless they are stainless steel. If not, they are strong at first, but will rot out and need to be replaced too soon in our wet weather. Personally, I use 1/2" stainless bolts, usually 2-3/4" long in perfect granite, longer if the rock is more course or in a roof, but I have a power drill. I use those nice heavy stainless Fixe hangers with them. I think I read that if the rock is not as hard, that length is actually more important than diameter, so a longer 3/8" bolt would be better than a shorter 1/2", but double check on that.

Just make sure you take your time and drill a nice and straight hole, plenty deep, and clean it out well with a blow bulb and tube brush.

Also, without getting into the whole groundup/on rappel argument, I would strongly advise at least placing your early bolts in on rappel, after running up and down the route and triple checking your placements. On rappel you can concentrate on putting in a perfect bolt better.

For the anchors, in high quality rock and with no other considerations, I put them horizontal and about 6 inches apart. That is far enough away to not weaken the rock, yet not so far as to introduce too much force vector on the bolts with 2-1/2" quicklinks on each hanger.

I second yarp's point that you really should find somebody who is experienced at it to learn from hands on. It is fairly simple, but there are a lot of little things that you might not think to be aware of when you are starting that are important. I'm sure if you posted up (maybe in NEClimbing.com) you could find somebody to give you a hand on you first projects.

Having set quite a few of both kinds, and also having participated in a replacement job on 20 y.o. routes, here's some points to ponder:

• A Powers 3/8" 5 pc. is really a 5/16" bolt. A 3/8" wedge is 3/8".
• The cap bolt on a Powers can conceal metal fatigue, over-torquing and tearing.
• After 20 years of occasional moisture, the threads on a Powers corrode up and it is more common to snap those off than a stud. Then, if you want to use the same hole, you start a very tedious process of pulling with needlenose, trying to drill out the metal, and so on. There is nothing easy 80% of the time in replacing a Powers.
• There is no need to replace a wedge unless it's worn loose. Then, if thats the case, it can usually be pounded back into the hopefully over-drilled hole and easily patched.
• The big box stores do sell a version of the 5 pc. bolt, from God-knows-where. Once installed, you couldn't tell.
• When we replaced anchors at Castlewood, 2 of the routes we did are side by side; Hedgeclipper is in a heavy waterstreak and sees many days of waterfall action a year, while Beta Slave is bone dry. Hedgeclipper was done with plated wedge bolts, Beta Slave mostly w/ Powers. The wedge bolts' nuts came off easily, and the stud corrosion negligible. The 5 pc.-ers on Beta Slave were a struggle.
• And, as I mentioned, we used plated 20 years ago. We saw no case of noticeable corrosion, even in the waterstreak route. Out here in the West, with impermeable stone (NOT sandstone) and typical conditions other than the Pacific NW; there's nothing wrong with plated.