Problems with camp hosts at 13 mile....

Here's the song. A little bird was singing it at my doorstep this morning:

Sung to "Camptown Races"

Da Campground Nazis sing this song, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Da Campground Nazis four pair strong, oh de doo-dah
day.

Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
Campground Nazis sittin' in da truck,
Playin' da tool every day.

Friends showed up to ride along, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Nazis freaked and said 'be gone!', oh de doo-dah day.

Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
Got out of da truck to chew my ass,
Why won't they just go away.

Campground Nazis came real late, doo-dah, doo-dah,
'Don't park crooked make it straight,' oh de doo-dah
day.

Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
Shoulda been smart and got a group site,
Like NOLS or AMGA.

Campground small and nice and flat, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Nazis drive and stay real fat, oh de doo-dah day.

Drivin' round all night,
Drivin' round all day,
What a heinous waste of gas,
One for which we pay.

Rattlesnake curled near my hat, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Campground Nazis smash it flat, oh de doo-dah day.

Howling winds all night,
Howling winds all day,
Staked my tent down real good,
The others just blew away.

Had a tire over the line, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Campground Nazis said 'Big fine," oh de doo-dah day.

Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Bet you when we get back to the tent,
They'll have something to say.

Between the gun range and the mine, doo-dah, doo-dah,
13 Mile it's so fine, oh de doo-dah day.

Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Paid my money in a minute flat,
Still got harassed anyway.

Campground Nazis have their way, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Public lands yet we pay, oh de doo-dah day.

Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Red Rocks climbing is real good,
But it's 'pay to play.'

Flat and windy and Nazi zoo, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Worst campground I've been to, oh de doo-dah day.

Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Got back to my tent late one night,
But da Nazis took it away.

Da Campground Nazis ban dis song, doo-dah, doo-dah,
Da Campground Nazis never wrong, oh de doo-dah day.

Climbing into the night,
Climbing 'round all day,
Thought that I could take their crap,
But da Nazis scared me away.

Andrew, awesome!

What, you don't want to take them cookies? You must be one of them enema competents. Aint that right (wing) Charles D?

phil broscovak wrote:What, you don't want to take them cookies? You must be one of them enema competents. Aint that right (wing) Charles D?

Like I said, I've never had a problem with them, but that could be because I FOLLOW THE POSTED RULES. Novel concept I suppose, guess it's easier to name call and cry about it. Good job, gotta keep the internetz full of tears phil, keep up the good work with the "oh nooooes, I am a victim because I can't follow the rules everyone else does but I expect sympathy for it".

And I like the toon, not as smooth as some of the skydiving dity's I'm used to (some people claim there's a rigger to blame, but I know, it's my own damn fault)

Charles,

You don't get it. People who follow the rules to a T still get harassed. Just because you've never had a problem doesn't mean that there is no problem.

Jason

Jason D. Martin wrote:Charles, You don't get it. People who follow the rules to a T still get harassed. Just because you've never had a problem doesn't mean that there is no problem. Jason

Could be, not saying it doesn't happen. But reading this thread alone, you'll find the number of cries about the "nazi's" all come down to rule breaking save 1 post. Further, the tone of most all the posts (and the use of "nazi")goes a pretty fair ways to show that SOME of hte attitude may very well be warrented.

Let me reiterate my stance on the matter: If you feel that the staff is doing a good/poor job, please contact the company that runs it. That is if you want to voice something that may actually matter. If you are here to cry and moan and not achieve any change, then feel free to call them nazi's and state that anyone who thinks taking a shitty attitude with them won't make it better isa right winger. I'm of the opinion that treating people with respect begets more of the same. Treating the hosts as villians because YOU DIDN'T PAY and they called you on it is simply assinying(sp?).

Feel free to talk ill, or suggest staying anywhere else. But realize that crying about it on the interwebz amounts to nothing more than "ohhhh nooooes!".

And who knows, maybe bringing them cookies may make your stay better. If I showed up to a hotel or anywhere else and greeted them, gave them a cookie, and shook their hand, I bet they would treat me a fair bit better than if I snuck in after dark and tried to poach a spot in the parking lot/hot tub.

So until you actually contact the operating company and let them know your experience and ask if there is anything that can be done to accomodate the (i'm guessing) majority of the campers there (climbers), and see if they will rectify the situation, there really isn't this thread will really accomplish.

but feel free to flame me some more, or post about the "nazi's" and how they poisoned your milk too, or farted in the grocery store line.

Worst camphosts EVER!

I reiterate every problem and comment since this place opened.

I live here now and went out to visit some friends. As I was leaving the old man in his truck flashed his brights and turned on his yellow lights...

I drove right past...

He flips a U'ey, and gives chase...

I keep driving and speed up...

He chases more...

I dust him...

Charles you really must be as much of a moron as your misuse of the English language indicates. I am curious as to who was the one post that to your impression indicated they did follow the rules. I keep stating clearly that I do follow the posted rules yet you persist on assuming that I do not. If respect begets respect then why are you continuing to try and bust my balls, What gives? Maybe you should bring me cookies and we can talk about it.

phil broscovak wrote:Charles you really must be as much of a moron as your misuse of the English language indicates. I am curious as to who was the one post that to your impression indicated they did follow the rules. I keep stated clearly that I do follow the posted rules yet you persist on assuming that I do not. If respect begets respect then why are you continuing to try and bust my balls, What gives? Maybe you should bring me cookies and we can talk about it.

Hmmm, respect someone calling me a moron and a right winger for proposing that it's not necessarily as cut and dry as you claim it to be? And you attack my english followed by "I keep stated clearly", do we really want to go there? I would gladly bring you cookies and would love to talk about it, but in all honesty, you don't seem the type to listen. Not saying I'm much better, but then again, I never claimed to be. And I'm not busting your balls. I will certainly call you out on some of the spew you are posting here though. Like I said, please feel free to contact the owning company and let your thoughts be known.

As to some of the comments here, the following are pretty amusing proof that climbers aren't the angels we'd like to be, myself included:
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I've never personally been yelled at for anything but finally this year they started giving my good friend a hard time because he had come in at 1am and slept in his van in the general parking lot. In the morning he drove over to our site and the second he stepped out of the vehicle this woman came over and totally flipped out! Saying she wanted money for last nights camp "right now!" Well, he was with us and it is up to 10 climbers in a site, so needless to say she was completely out of line.
&
One night I was pretty much completely hidden in my Jetta, there was no way that any ordinary person would notice that someone was sleeping in that tiny car
&
I, like all other climbers, like to try to bend them a little
&
The second to last time I was there, we had three vehicles total (only two are allowed in a site). We asked our neighbors if we could park one of them in their space since they had one vehicle and they said, "sure." One day, we moved the vehicle back over to our site in the morning in order to load up and drive out to the park to climb. Within five minutes or less after we moved the vehicle, the hosts were at our site screeching, "We TOLD you, ONLY TWO VEHICLES IN A SITE!"
&
My first trip there ever, my friend and I roll in at 4 am and promptly throw our sleeping bags down and pass out on the sand. Come 8 am, the man parks his cart and awakens us, demanding payment right then
&
see earlier post about loading three vehicles - I've had a similar experience
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Are examples of speaking out the corner of your mouth. As I've said, I've been approached for not paying immediately, which I fully accept as against the rules. But I guess my experience is somehow "WRONG".

Could they have handled some of the above better, sure, but I suppose reading my posts and understanding that I'm not saying that the CG hosts are angels, but when you add in the toxic attitude that this thread seems to be boiling down to, I personally (and others have said it too)can't blame them for being caustic.

P Broscovak wrote:I am likely one of the very few climbers to have beaten them in court thus I have a interesting perspective...

Congrats. Glad to hear that you triumphed in our legal system. I too await to hear what you were "charged with" and what occured to force you to have to take the issue to court.

And let me wrap it up by saying that I do have a small chip on my shoulder when it comes to people commenting about how "bad" something is on the interwebz and everyone jumping on the bandwagon. Group think is not a good thing. Further, when a group I am a part of (climber's) throws around the term Nazi about someone doing their job, well, let's just say I feel it sets a poor image for us all.

Let me reiterate this, for you in particular Phil: I'm not attacking you, I just feel there are more constructive ways to try and bridge what very well may be a communication gap between the host's and the campers. You can read the thread and find plenty of examples of how approaching them respectfully has brought about a harmonious stay/experience. So if I make it out to RR soon, cookies are on me Phil.

edited to fix quotes hopefully...

Oooh I love cookies. If only the campground hosts would bring me cookies I might give them the benefit of a doubt.

OK for those awaiting the regaling of my legal triumph here we go. Eight years ago I got a late parking ticket in the scenic loop. Rather than rolling over and accepting this onerous government revenue generation I opted to fight it in court. They do not like it when we choose to excercise our legal rights as they are afraid it will expose their flaws.

Now before Charles says something pithy like "do the crime pay the time" let me clarify my defense. But first let me fill in some details. The court date was originally scheduled for the same time as the impending birth of my 3rd child. However my little dude was late, really late. I should have given him a late exit ticket. I had to reschedule the court date 5 times. I am fairly sure they thought I was trying to weasel out. But after he arrived I went down with newborn baby pics in hand as proof of my sincerity. The ranger who had given me the ticket had to show up in court every time the case was scheduled. He was to say the least stunned when I did in fact appear in court.

Now my primary defense was, backed up by photo evidence, the fact that they had differing exit times posted at different sites. Now according to their own federal regulations that is a big No No. Well the judge immediately dismissed the case on the spot. But still allowed me to state my other point. I contended that the BLM was more interested in collecting revenue than in the welfare of individuals in the area. I was able to explain that the BLM didn't care if someone was hurt or in trouble as much as they were eager to give out tickets. The judge and the ranger both seemed to take that to heart. You see I have a federal disability rating from injury incurred while serving the good ole USA. We were late because my artificial knee was acting up and the hike out was problematic to say the least. My golden Access Pass, with the handicapped logo, was clearly displayed. Yet in their rush to give out tickets they never stopped to consider that there just might be a handicapped individual in distress out in the desert. The judge listened intently then admonished the ranger for not considering that possibility. It felt good to be heard. The ranger actually apologized and then said I had a cute kid. End of story. Power to the people!

Except that I think if more of us fought back rather than rolling over we could affect some real change in the draconian policies of the BLM.

3 comments.

First, When i make it down there next, i'll leave a few boxes of cookies with the CG hosts so they have plenty of spare cookies to go around=)

Second, you were 100% justified in your case. No doubt about it. And congrats on your 3rd knee biter. I certainly agree with your priorities and would have done the same, no matter the consequences.

Third, I agree 100% about sticking up for rights. I think getting organized about it is also good (participate in local and national groups). I just don't find much "constructive" conversation that goes on in most forums. Had this thread been a simple : "I had a bad experience at the 13 mile campground and am writting them. please do the same so we can get this changed, here's the address." I believe most all of us would be on the same page. Kinda like the flak Tico is taking on the IC drug bust thread for suggesting that if you choose to break the law, don't be surprised if there are consequences. I just get tired of listening to some (no one in particular) cry and moan about the woes of the world without taking any responsability for their actions.

tangent: Had a girl at work that hated everything democrat and hated all things going on in politics. She would come to work and spend her day telling me this and that was done wrong. One day early into it, I asked her if she had voted in the last election. She said no, to which I asked her to not talk about it until she was a part of it. Well, she got upset, and huffy, and I went on to explain that until she was part of the process, her voice meant nothing, and it was simply only shrill crying about something she wasn't willing to change. the next week she registered and went to a local caucus. Made me very proud. Mind you, she had some ideas that I personally hold as horrible, but find it great that she is now part of it and at least is contributing, rather than sitting on the sidelines and pissing about why the coach called a flee flicker when clearly he should have called for a hell mary...

Charles on this we can agree...
I have always been appalled by those who complain about Government and yet don't vote. If that is what you were endeavoring to refer to regarding the camp ground hosts then I agree there as well. I was just very annoyed that you kept insisting that we were all to blame for not following the rules. Particularly since I and several others were explaining that even when following the rules we were still unnecessarily hassled.
Cheers philo.

Just wanted to take a minute and say the current campground hosts are all super rad. Was just there for an 8 day stay and they made it a point to make sure we were happy, and in some cases really went the extra mile to do so. I know i read this sticky before i left and was concerned we'd run into authoritative dickwads at the campsite, but in fact we found exactly the opposite.

I would just like to point out that the original post was posted 5 YEARS AGO! The current hosts (including myself 2 days a week) are extremely accommodating, friendly, and all around good folk. Don't believe me? Chat them up and I'm sure you'll have a good time talkin' about who knows what... They respect the climbing community and all people who stay at the 13 mile campground. They will gladly talk with you about any issues/questions you have regarding camping at the 13 mile campground, life, or anything you can think of.

Camping in the "General Parking" area is still not allowed without either 1) a vehicle parking permit issued by the campground host, which allows the car to be parked there. or 2) a payment for a nights camping just like any other site (the parking spots are numbered sites too). This is especially important in the Spring/Fall when it super busy at the grounds and the hosts have a lot of people to accommodate.

Rhoads, sorry you and your buddy got razzed way back when, but I just wanted to bring some light to the situation since this zombie-post has been brought back from the dead. I assure you the new hosts are great. Hope your Cali trip is going well man. Give me a call if you're heading to Red Rocks and we'll climb some sick splitters and perhaps get stuck in some mean off widths for a while.

Respect

Yea, I was surprised to see this thread come back up. I have been back many times since the original incident without any trouble. Climb on!

Matt Kuehl wrote:I would just like to point out that the original post was posted 5 YEARS AGO! The current hosts (including myself 2 days a week) are extremely accommodating, friendly, and all around good folk. Don't believe me? Chat them up and I'm sure you'll have a good time talkin' about who knows what... They respect the climbing community and all people who stay at the 13 mile campground. They will gladly talk with you about any issues/questions you have regarding camping at the 13 mile campground, life, or anything you can think of. Camping in the "General Parking" area is still not allowed without either 1) a vehicle parking permit issued by the campground host, which allows the car to be parked there. or 2) a payment for a nights camping just like any other site (the parking spots are numbered sites too). This is especially important in the Spring/Fall when it super busy at the grounds and the hosts have a lot of people to accommodate. Rhoads, sorry you and your buddy got razzed way back when, but I just wanted to bring some light to the situation since this zombie-post has been brought back from the dead. I assure you the new hosts are great. Hope your Cali trip is going well man. Give me a call if you're heading to Red Rocks and we'll climb some sick splitters and perhaps get stuck in some mean off widths for a while. Respect

Sorry dude. I only posted in it because it's a sticky thread and i read it, so i thought others might too. I took a ride in the golf cart with you the other day to get fire wood. You were rad, so was Debbie and her husband. Apologies for bringing up an old thread, was simply trying to share a good experience.

Seth, thanks for taking the time to write the positive comment, its appreciated and sorry if it seems like I overlooked your comment. No worries about bringing up the old thread, I just wanted to add my 2-cents also.