How much does your trad rack weigh?

I recently started into trad, after many years of sport climbing. I was just packing up for a weekend of short multi-pitching and weighed my backpack. 

Two racks of cams (wc-friends), a couple totems, a set of nuts, alpine draws, anchor material, harness, shoes, helmet, etc, comes out to almost 20 lbs without the rope. 

Just curious how other people's trad racks compare, thanks!

(note: I will be doing all the leads, so my partner won't be carrying any trad gear of her own)

(just the actual trad gear (cams,nuts,slings) was about 12lb when i weighed it separately)

Water is the hidden killer, and you can't replace it with titanium or mini-biners!  

If your rack and rope(s) are considerably lighter, you don’t need as much water.

I’ll go weigh my current rack. It is a little bigger than what I used to carry, but surely weighs a little less. I bet my rope, rack, harness, belay device all together weigh considerably less than 20 pounds.

13 pounds is the answer. Which includes the weight of a gear sling. And cleaning tool. And the plastic tub I dumped everything in.

28 DMM Spectre carabiners.  
#1-8 Wild Country Rocks.
#1-8 Metolius UL Mastercams.
A #4 single axle Technical Friend.
4 - 25cm open QDs.
4 - 60cm slings.
1 - 120cm hand tied 5/8 nylon sling.
1 - 7mm x 14 foot cordelette.
6mm soft perlon prussik.
2 - Kong oval locking carabiners.
Gear sling.
Petzl Verso.
nut tool.
harness.
9.2mm x 50m rope.
Actual weight of above is 12-1/2 pounds.

I think over time you'll find that two racks of cams is too much. 

Stop carrying big cams you won't use. 

ddriver wrote:

I think over time you'll find that two racks of cams is too much. 

Stop carrying big cams you won't use. 

That's probably true, but since I'm only about a year into leading trad, I figure more is better. Then I can lace it up as much as I want. 

I was curious and got ~14 lbs with a complete double rack 0.1 to 3, a dozen slings, shoes, harness, helmet, gri-gri, no rope. 20lbs in a backpack isn't super far off, especially if you're carrying a bunch of big lockers and anchor material as most beginners do. Trad climbing is heavy.

Eric, even a skinny 60m is 7-8 lbs, how are you at 13 with the rope?

Probs places a lot of nuts and is comfortable running it out on easier terrain. As a more beginner as well, I'd trend towards bringing more gear to the cliff just in case. Better to be heavy and secure than light, runout, and scared. That said, while I bring a lot of gear to the crag, ive started to slim down on what I take up with me based on the grade/style as I've gained more confidence. With time you'll optimize, but I'd take suggestions on mp with a bit of caution as people on here are climbing at different crags with different gear demands.

Jack, you are partly right. I also developed as a climber in a different era. There has been a lot of excellent evolution through the decades. But not nearly as much as is commonly believed. The average climber today is slower, not faster. That is both time on routes, and time progressing in trad climbing. I am old now, don’t get out that much, and consequently don’t climb very hard presently. But I have adopted some of the new thinking, equipment, etc., and it is helpful. I think newer generation climbers would benefit if they did a bit of the reverse. Why not have the best of both worlds?

Nuts are just as easy to use as cams. They are cheaper, lighter, and probably most important they are more compact.

Edit added: A big difference is that for my first 8 years there were no cams. Hexes work but like today’s nuts, they require specific spots to place well. Cams biggest advantage is each one covers a continuous range. So right outta the gate I (and every one else) had to learn to read the opportunities ahead and the difficulty of getting to those opportunities, to a significantly higher degree than today’s climber. We had to have more ability to judge how likely we might be to fall off. Having more skill at not falling off was more important. Having more confidence at running it out is a mental skill. Generally speaking, we just worried about protecting the harder bits, and learned to be comfortable just running out the rest of it with just an occasional piece of gear.

I hope you consider these things starting now. Learning the true meaning behind them will make you a safer more skilled climber. I am not recommending you go scare the shit out of yourself. Just think about a different way to look at the system, and what you need to be safe, and maybe building some mental skills you haven’t yet thought about. 

Great insight Eric, I appreciate it. In my own climbing, for my harder onsights (which are usually 1-2 pitches at the gunks), I take up a good amount of extra gear (doubles in micro through finger sizes) because the bigger risk is not being able to adequately protect the climb than it is to be efficient. On easier onsights, i try to take up a slimmer rack, and to waste less time placing gear on easy terrain. I think slow and heavy/fast and light have their merits and someones approach should depend on their experience/objective, but fast and light certainly sounds more enjoyable to me and is what I aspire to do. However, you were able to climb with that amount of rack comfortably due to decades of experience. Someone newer i think should consider taking more gear as they likely are not as solid and probably less creative with gear placements than someone like yourself. Then through experience, they can start to cut the fat off their rack.....that said i see climbers at the gunks carrying ball nuts and doubles of 1-3 to climb high e, so i know where you're coming from Eric 😂.

this is the current rack, for reference. I'm sure I can cut the number of alpines down since the cams have extendable slings, but I know the 5.4s that I'll be doing on this trip will have some traverses, so reducing rope drag will be nice. Anchor rigs: 240cm and 120cm sling, and a 20' cordalette and 180cm sling. Both with 3 lockers. 

Brian C wrote:

this is the current rack, for reference. I'm sure I can cut the number of alpines down since the cams have extendable slings, but I know the 5.4s that I'll be doing on this trip will have some traverses, so reducing rope drag will be nice. Anchor rigs: 240cm and 120cm sling, and a 20' cordalette and 180cm sling. Both with 3 lockers. 

You have about 3 too many extra slings of anchor material and at least 4 more lockers than you will find a use for

Cole is right. I’m counting up to 10(?) lockers on your rack and harness. I rarely bring more than 3. You can bring 2-3 wire gates for the same weight as 1 locker

Also, on multis where I’m doing all the leading, I’ll only bring a guide mode tube device (reverso, atc guide) and let my follower carry the grigri. Grigris are heavy

I'm thinking now this thread is really a ruse for Brian to brag on the pink tricam. Nicely played.

The weight of my rack completely and utterly depends on where, what, and when i am climbing. i have climbed 3000+ ft moderate routes with a 70m 7ish-mm lead line and a single set of cams from blue tcu to red camalot. i have also climbed 3 pitch routes that i needed my haul bag to carry everything.

Where - If it is an area i am really familiar with i can sometimes get away with less stuff.  are there tons of rap opportunities that are easy with a single rope, or i know i can sneak over onto another route if i need to? is it a big committing route where bailing is going to require leaving gear and rapping as far as i can with two ropes? is the approach really long and may require extra water and a dry shirt to start the actual climbing with?

What - are the pitches long and sustained, and sometimes have long stretches of the same size? is there a lot of wide climbing? both of these can get heavy quick. is the climbing at my difficulty/grade limit? is the climbing in "my" wheelhouse, or will i be a bit unconfident on it? do i need two ropes to get off?  am i rope soloing (more stuff to bring) or will i have a partner?

When - if it is really hot i am going to need more water.  if it is cold i will need a bit more clothing.  if it is that season where the day is pretty hot, but the temperature drops like a prom dress after dark i will need to be prepared for that as well.

Eric Craig wrote:

Also, being skilled at climbing will reduce your water requirements.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  I think at this point I am highly skilled at climbing but if I'm doing a long route with a long approach with lots of uphill and it's a hot day, I need every ounce of the  64 oz of fluid I carry with me.  I even drink most of this much fluid in a day out cragging. I've had to go to the ER with a kidney infection caused by dehydration before.  If you get back from a day of climbing and your piss is orange, you didn't drink enough fluid during the day. My next door neighbor just got out of 4 days in the hospital for sepsis secondary to a UTI and kidney infection.

Good practice to try out on this trip and future ones: after every pitch, look down at your harness and see what's left on there. Try to keep some mental notes on what gear you're using on every pitch, what gear you're using sometimes, and what gear never leaves your harness. Conversely, try to remember what gear you didn't have and wish you did. Use that to help decide what you bring on future trips. It can help to bring an extra piece of gear or two for emergency situations, but before you do that, really think through what situations you're actually going to use them (take a course or do some reading on rock rescue if you haven't already). You can do a lot with normal carabiners and slings from alpine draws rather than bringing a bunch of specialty stuff that never leaves your harness.

FWIW, I usually lean towards more pro on my harness than less. I find that the mental security from knowing I'll have enough gear and be able to place adequate protection usually leads to better climbing performance than shedding the weight of a few cams would. Most cams aren't that heavy. Especially as a beginner trad climber, you're probably gonna have a better time (safer, more enjoyable, more likely to send) with more pro than less. When you start getting into stuff with truly long approaches, then it can be worthwhile to start trying to shed weight, but I think a lot of climbers over-obsess on saving weight even when they're only going a mile or two from the road. If you're really struggling with carrying the weight, probably a better idea to spend some time working on your hiking fitness rather than trying to cut every possible gram from your rack. 

Brian C wrote:

this is the current rack, for reference. I'm sure I can cut the number of alpines down since the cams have extendable slings, but I know the 5.4s that I'll be doing on this trip will have some traverses, so reducing rope drag will be nice. Anchor rigs: 240cm and 120cm sling, and a 20' cordalette and 180cm sling. Both with 3 lockers. 

What you carry in your rack is a varies a lot day to day and person to person, but my .02 looking at this photo would be:

• Get lighter carabiners, both lockers and non lockers (nano 22s, the light BD ones, or anything similar, don't get the FS Mini) and don't carry more than 5 lockers total. (Any clean nosed, lightweight locker is good)  You need one locker to attach yourself to the anchor with, 1-2 to belay your partner up depending on your device, and 1-2 extra in case of emergencies.  Anything more than that is overkill.
• Skip the cord and carry less cordage/webbing in general. All you need is 2 anchor kits total (I like dyneema quads or triples) w/one extra double for self rescue and a hollowblock.  More than that is extra clutter and weight. 
• Lose the hiking pole and substitute soft-sided water containers for the nalgenes.  I'll only carry a pole if I'm going to be approaching/depproaching a lot.
• Lose both pairs of gloves.  Consider keeping the belay gloves if you're going to be doing 5+ raps in the heat, but otherwise they're extra.  Crack gloves probably don't matter too much on 5.4 if that is actually what you're climbing on.  If you learn to crack climb well, you'll find you won't really need the gloves long term either. (but they're great for learning)
• Lose the rocky talkie and learn to communicate well with your partner using positioning and yelling. (the former enables the latter) Eventually even yelling won't seem that relevant and you'll know what's going on mostly by context.
• Get a lighter harness.
• Lose the bigger stoppers and many of the medium sizes as well.  A light rack of nuts from tips-fingers sizes should be good unless you're somewhere you're expecting to use more. (long simul blocks, huge alpine terrain you might bail off of, etc)
• One other hack is to carry some of your slings over your shoulder with only one carabiner for extending cams.  This way you're not wasting an extra carabiner at the cam, since every cam has a racking carabiner already.

Most of those changes involve spending money, which isn't ideal, but that is how you make a rack weigh way less.  The underlying principle is ounces equal pounds, and even a pound or two saved is huge when climbing, so every little weight-saving has significant value.  

There's already a lot of good advice here on tuning your baseline rack to your given objective for the day, so take that into account too, but what I'm trying to describe is a good baseline rack.  I still carry a double set from tips to 3 most days because I've gotten my overall kit light enough that the extra cams aren't that noticeable and I'd rather have the options they offer when building anchors, linking pitches, protecting my partner, etc.

In 1980 we carried a lot less gear BUT:-

• Snap krabs were 56+g now 30-g (and now stronger)
• Slings were 25mm and double thickness, now 8mm and single (1/6 weight?), same strength
• Size 5-9 CAMP hexs were heavy, mine ended up full of drilled lighening holes (-25%). modern hexes (WC) are 50% lighter (& tape v 8mm cord)
• Ropes were 11mm (but only 45m), now 8.7mm (OK I use two, so less runner extenders)
• And wires were like unicorn horns, Troll made 2 sizes, large and medium (my first small set were Chouinard from Yosemite)

I appreciate everyone's feedback! I'll keep track of what I use this trip (and don't use), and adjust accordingly next time. 

I'm not going to take out the hiking pole though, because my old (50) knees don't like the descents as much as they used to (looking at you, Seneca). I know the Rocky talkies are "just" a convenience, but I find them way more useful especially where i've climbed, where you might be around the corner from your belayer and it's super windy. We did the rope-tugs method back when i started climbing in the 90s, but I think i'll stick with technology. 

Brian C wrote:

I'll keep track of what I use this trip (and don't use), ... 

As several others have said: waaaay too many lockers. Also, one of the anchor sets will stay with your follower at all times. 

Try really hard to never place your big cams (#1, #2, #3 in rack pic) and use them as a "backup solution" when truly nothing else fits. Look for alternative placements using nuts or smaller cams. You'll likely find (of course area dependent) that a single 1-3 is sufficient.

The pic shows offset nuts and metolius curved nuts. These brands are the hardest nuts to clean. As a consequence, your follower will be swearing and cursing at your nut placements and you will stop placing them. You will place more cams (but still carry your nuts!) and will wrongly conclude that you urgently need all your cams (including doubles of 1,2,3). Small/medium nuts are lighter than cams, so learn to place a truckload of easy-to-clean (BD, Wild Country) nuts and you can leave the heavy cams at home. All of this is strongly area dependent as some places simply don't take nuts. You mention Seneca which is very happy with nuts (similar to "nearby" Gunks which is the same type of rock). However, placing nuts that are easy for the follower to clean is an aquired skill, for which most climbers don't have the patience/time to learn.

a quick update, since we just got back from our trip to the gunks:

As many of you mentioned, I had way too many lockers. I even left 4 at home, and still had at least 3 that never got touched. We climbed two routes, 7 pitches in total. 

I did end up using every cam size at least a couple times, and used most of my slings at least once. (I probably could have left two double-length slings behind). The three totems (black, blue, yellow) got used the most. Then probably the 0.4 friend next. Maybe I'm just biased toward small gear. 

I used the 240cm and the cordalette for the gear anchors, but probably could save quite a bit of bulk and weight by swapping the cord for another 240. I used the 180 for several of the tree anchors, as a quick anchor with an overhand. 

The Rocky Talkies were super useful, as it was pretty windy and several pitches were well out of shouting distance. I don't regret taking those at all. In the distance several times, i heard other parties shouting "OFF BELAY!" several times in succession, so i'm sure rockies would have helped those folks as well. 

I only placed a handful of passive gear. Part of that is because I'm just not as quick at it, and part was so my partner wouldn't have to spend time removing it. 

I brought 8 alpine draws, and on one pitch, I used almost all of them. I could have probably saved some of them by just using the extended sling on the Friends, but that would have increased rope drag. 

Here's a pic of one of my anchors, for your amusement.