Devils Lake Toprope Clusterf*** PART 3

Doug Hemken wrote:

I can remember two TR accidents where people were using single-point anchors at the East Rampart.  It's not the size of the tree, it's the sharp edges below the tree.

If I had just led a route and was belaying from above, then I'd consider a single tree adequate, myself.  And for rappeling as well, I routinely used stout trees.  But people get comfortable with their own standard set up - thinking is often hard work.

Well yeah, that explains all those whack-ass multi piece directionals 

I use big trees at the lake all the time.  This week a huge oak at the base of Pedestal fell.  I was teaching anchors on that tree a month ago.  It was unquestionably strong... until it wasn't.😮

The problem with tree's as anchors is that eventually the tree will get damaged and die. Especially with 10,000 gumbies climbing around the tree snapping branches and what not. 

grug g wrote:

The problem with tree's as anchors is that eventually the tree will get damaged and die. Especially with 10,000 gumbies climbing around the tree snapping branches and what not. 

And soil compaction

Doug Hemken wrote:

I can remember two TR accidents where people were using single-point anchors at the East Rampart.  It's not the size of the tree, it's the sharp edges below the tree.

If I had just led a route and was belaying from above, then I'd consider a single tree adequate, myself.  And for rappeling as well, I routinely used stout trees.  But people get comfortable with their own standard set up - thinking is often hard work.

Yeah the common tactic is to still have two strands coming in for material redundancy especially at DL where theres some sharp edges. I have seen some people using a single strand TR anchor. I'm not so sure about that. 

The criticism I received was also about how high i had attached the static rope to the tree specifically to avoid sharp edges. Folks all have different risks that they deem to be the most significant. 

But you're right. Thinking is pretty hard ;)

Close, but no cigar

Garrett Hopkins wrote:

Close, but no cigar

hard to tell but that edge looks sharp 

chris tregge wrote:

hard to tell but that edge looks sharp 

Why don’t DL top-ropers carry a few rope protectors? Rock and Rescue makes a nice one. I carry one with my normal mini-trax kit. 

Daniel Shively wrote:

Why don’t DL top-ropers carry a few rope protectors? Rock and Rescue makes a nice one. I carry one with my normal mini-trax kit. 

I'm generally using static line on my TR anchors at the lake.  Super beefy, and they make it easy to build well set anchors don't move much if at all.  I carry some rubber hose for edge protection, but rarely use it.

Back in the day when I used webbing, I would notice wear on it from the edge.

I think that's the issue at the lake.  Folks with more modern gear (which I myself resisted for a long time), can build stronger, faster anchors that aren't bothered as much by edges.  Essentially this means 100' of static line tied in some version of a JTree anchor ( youtu.be/4dcizY-rgfM?si=XVu…). 

The biggest problems I see (and the reason for this entertaining feed) are from people cobbling together TR anchors from sport gear or bad trad anchors with either too much gear, or (more often) not enough soft goods.  

100' of static (Sterling makes killer 9mm that's pretty dang light), basically lets you build a bombproof anchor anywhere at the lake.  It's long enough to get to good gear placements almost anywhere, or to wrap big natural anchors.  There are some areas where you can set multiple TRs with only masterpoint carabiners and a long static.

To the folks who's anchors appear in this thread: either a) keep the high quality entertainment coming or, b) get yerself a nice chunk of static!

Professor Watermelon wrote:

I'm generally using static line or my TR anchors at the lake.  Super beefy, and well set anchors don't move much if at all.  I carry some rubber hose for edge protection, but rarely use it.

Back in the day when I used webbing, I would notice wear on it from the edge.

I think that's the issue at the lake.  Folks with more modern gear (which I myself resisted for a long time), can build stronger, faster anchors that aren't bothered as much by edges.  Essentially this means 100' of static line tied in some version of a JTree anchor ( youtu.be/4dcizY-rgfM?si=XVu…). 

The biggest problems I see (and the reason for this entertaining feed) are from people cobbling together TR anchors from sport gear or bad trad anchors with either too much gear, or (more often) not enough soft goods.  

100' of static (Sterling makes killer 9mm that's pretty dang light), basically lets you build a bombproof anchor anywhere at the lake.  It's long enough to get to good gear placements almost anywhere, or to wrap big natural anchors.  There are some areas where you can set multiple TRs with only masterpoint carabiners and a long static.

To the folks who's anchors appear in this thread: either a) keep the high quality entertainment coming or, b) get yerself a nice chunk of static and learn three knots.

I follow what you’re saying. I do think a rope protector is nice and will extend the life of your beefy static line. Anyway, enjoy your cool spot.

1" tubular everytime al the time I say, static is good for pulling oak trees down with chain pullers.

Carry on

M M wrote:

1" tubular everytime al the time I say, static is good for pulling oak trees down with chain pullers.

Carry on

Do you trust rappelling on a single strand of webbing, and if so, what is your method?

I have two pieces of garden hose that are cut lengthwise on one side, that allows me to pop em on anywhere on the rope. Put a hole on the top to rig a keeper sling/cord

chris tregge wrote:

hard to tell but that edge looks sharp 

Yeah top of Sometime. Not wicked sharp but not a nice rounded edge 

Alex Fletcher wrote:

Do you trust rappelling on a single strand of webbing, and if so, what is your method?

I never go climbing without a climbing rope and I don't TRS so...

Alpine Style Toproping. The tape is hilarious

Garrett Hopkins wrote:

Alpine Style Toproping. The tape is hilarious

And I thought I invented the term

Garrett Hopkins wrote:

Alpine Style Toproping. The tape is hilarious

Is the tape supposed to be protecting the sling from the "edge"?

Garrett is clearly winning so far this year - unfair advantage, though.

Is this the top of Vacillation?