New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #43

Castaneda, I read all of his books back in the 70's and have noticed that many in the climbing tribe back then did also. What was the specific attraction of climbers to his works? Or was it merely coincidence?

Anyone else here besides Bill and myself take the Don Juan trip?

T Hockingwrote:

Casteneda, I read all of his books back in the 70's and have noticed that many in the climbing tribe back then did also. What was the specific attraction of climbers to his works? Or was it merely coincidence?

Anyone else here besides Bill and myself take the Don Juan trip?

I was really into lucid dreaming for years after reading the books, I’m still able to find my hands and “wake up” in a dream on occasion.  

The most important thing from the books for me was to use death as an advisor, and make good use of every moment since we are all running out of time….

Ward Smithwrote:

I was really into lucid dreaming for years after reading the books, I’m still able to find my hands and “wake up” in a dream on occasion.  

The most important thing from the books for me was to use death as an advisor, and make good use of every moment since we are all running out of time….

I enjoy the writing of Casteneda and practicing lucid dreaming. I think Casteneda resonates with climbers because it provides a way to explore deeper connections to the inner journey of pushing it out there. 

I’ve enjoyed many great conversations with Bill discussing this very idea. Thanks Bill for sharing!

Happy Independence Day! 

Memento Mori

El Cap Tower, 1983

Happy 4th of July to all the over 50 climbers!

Daniel Shivelywrote:

I enjoy the writing of Casteneda and practicing lucid dreaming. I think Casteneda resonates with climbers because it provides a way to explore deeper connections to the inner journey of pushing it out there. 

I’ve enjoyed many great conversations with Bill discussing this very idea. Thanks Bill for sharing!

Happy Independence Day! 

Memento Mori

Growing up with very Catholic parents and from an early age discovering myself as a non-believer and devout agnostic, I became dispassionate about any form of spirituality. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I can't think of a time when I felt a need to attach anything more to the natural world or to my endeavors other than it's fun for me. I mean, I'll stop and ponder why is it fun, but I ultimately come back to it just is and why does it need to be more than that? Even the idea of love: for me it just is. I'm sure there's obvious disparity in my positions but, oh well.

Couple of Spring Mountain locals from yesterday am.

Just nibbling away at the local watering hole at Harris Springs.

Happy 4th to all!!

While always unnerving, finding mountain lion fresh kills thrills me..

James Harveywrote:

While always unnerving, finding mountain lion fresh kills thrills me..

Spooky!

...and thanks for the kind words directed my way the other day. 

Happy 4th of July everyone!  This is my favorite day of the year... no special reason except red, white and blue, and hot summer days.  And barbeque.  

Todd... your post doesn't really need a response, but if I can add my own thoughts.  I've always loved spirituality, comparative religion, exploring and experiencing different paths--dancing at Krisna festivals, sitting in Zen mediation, hanging out with Benedictine monks at Valleyermo.  I landed in the Catholic Church.  I just liked the saying 'bloom where you're planted' and I was planted here.  

But for the most part, I think the larger world has developed an allergy to all things religion, and rightly so.  Most of religion seems unnecessary, oppressive and ridiculous, sometimes hillarious.  So let it go and make peace with leaving it all behind, as it sounds like you have.

For myself, almost from birth I was a very sickly child, and I feared death even before I had a concept of death.  My mother never spoke of religion or God.  It was my grandmother who snuck in some beliefs of hers when she could get me to herself, and I am grateful she did.  I had no foundation for conceiving of an afterlife, or a creator... but she gave that to me which I carry to this day.  Several of my 7 grandkids have started to call and write to me, privately asking me about God.  My oldest granddaughter told me she found some Zen meditations on the internet, and has been sneaking off into the woods to try it alone--but do I think there is a God?  It's a weird spot to be in, not wanting to infringe on her parents agnosticism.  My daughter has plainly asked me "Can you tell Aiden about God?  I don't know what to say."     I have responded, nope, share what's real for you.   

But these days here in Joshua Tree I feel like I've been on a long journey, accompanied all the way by an unseen creator.  I have the feeling that I've been saved from a million obstacles, most I never knew about.  The longer I roam here in the desert, the more life I feel everywhere, seen and unseen.  

Fossils everywhere at 10,000’

And sometimes on this thread…

Cheers to all of us fossils!

Todd- glad you are back.

Edit:Phylp- thank you. Love your t-shirt and capris!!

My wife wants me to sew her a pair now…

I consider my hiatus a “timeout”..  

Edit: added more fossils..

James Harveywrote:

Fossils everywhere at 10,000’

And sometimes on this thread…

Cheers to all of us fossils!

Todd- glad you are back.

Very cool! James, welcome back. Did you get locked out of your account and have to start a new one? (No need to answer it’s really not my business.). I miss Al Rubin,  I hope he can get back in. 

Todd Berlierwrote:

Growing up with very Catholic parents and from an early age discovering myself as a non-believer and devout agnostic, I became dispassionate about any form of spirituality. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I can't think of a time when I felt a need to attach anything more to the natural world or to my endeavors other than it's fun for me. I mean, I'll stop and ponder why is it fun, but I ultimately come back to it just is and why does it need to be more than that? Even the idea of love: for me it just is. I'm sure there's obvious disparity in my positions but, oh well.

I just like ideas and don’t put all my eggs in any one basket. 

Happy 250th!

My grandfather was full Greek, and very old school character. He didn't do anything at all about it, but, he was Greek Orthodox, and had icons on the wall at the table he sat at.

The woman he married second, was actually Lutheran, but all he would allow* her was Greek Orthodox. Not much of that in my small town. So, a few times a year, she would drive to the large city to attend mass. One of my few regrets, later, was that I never asked to go with her. Not for any religious reason, just to step back in time to the Byzantine.

*yes, allowed is the operative word here. In my grandpa's culture, women were pretty darn close to chattel. She couldn't even go to the doctor, when she had lumps in her breasts......because those breasts were my Grandpa's, and no other man could have anything to do with them.

Hot has arrived. June was really pleasant temps, but that's over. In the 90s this week, supposed to hit 100 about a week out. Still, at 2500 feet, it still is reasonable at night, and I got AC, if it isn't. 

Helen

x15x15wrote:

The fish are smart and it takes a perfect presentation to get them to rise. But, it is fishing and not catching. Still many were  put in the  net. This was one of the smaller ones...

Go ahead and rub my face in IT.

But TBH HC has - or had at one time- even bigger Trout.

Jan got me into Fly Fishing about 10 years ago. Before the extra dry years. Even though I was brand new to the “sport of the Uber rich” I was able to cast OK, I thought, get a decent drift- or knot and occasionally set the hook on those well educated Trout.

A story. One time, while standing on the island. I heard all this splashing going on right behind me. I thought it somebody’s dog. But no, it was a sea monster. A fish at least 3 feet long who was fighting to get upstream, in shallow water, so it could snatch a large worm from the weeds. And it did then disappeared back into the depths.

So that’s my quest - Jan says he has had that one ON for a few seconds, gets away every time.

Enough of that, back to climbing. Last Thursday I was at Stony Point and I met “Jose” he is about 16, lives about a mile away from SP. Told me that he discovered climbing about 3 months ago at BoulderDash and has been going every day. Says nothing has ever grabbed him before like climbing and it’s all he thinks about now. Someone told him about Stony Point and that it was free to climb.
He asked how he was supposed to know “what are the holds?” So I took him around and showed him some problems. He took an interest in “3 pigs” a famous V1 …. But try as he might how to do a finger jam was so foreign to him it never entered his mind. So I showed him the secret handshake. He worked that problem for hours. He finally succeeded! He stood on top of B1 howling at the top of his lungs.

Do you all remember when climbing did that for you? 

Sometimes I remember that feeling. 

James Harveywrote:

Edit:Phylp- thank you. Love your t-shirt and capris!!

My wife wants me to sew her a pair now…

In that case be sure to use the fabric I use for all my climbing pants:

People who know me will understand why this fabric choice is serendipitous.  

While I was raised catholic, and went to catholic school for the first couple years, the minute I started to think for myself I became an atheist.  I think that happened when I was around 11 or 12.  At the same time, I loved the idea of being able to master the 'Gait of Power' to run around the desert in the middle of the night.  This seemed much more like the control and focus needed to climb/lead well and was a very attractive skill.  Many of us would run around the desert in Joshua Tree at night hurdling everything in the way ---- until Tony failed to clear a cholla and needed emergency care to remove spines from his most delicate parts.

Cholla crotch!

Daniel Shivelywrote:

I enjoy the writing of Casteneda and practicing lucid dreaming. I think Casteneda resonates with climbers because it provides a way to explore deeper connections to the inner journey of pushing it out there. 

I’ve enjoyed many great conversations with Bill discussing this very idea. Thanks Bill for sharing!

Happy Independence Day! 

Memento Mori

Anyone remember The Rock Warrior's Way by Arno Ilgner?  Probably came out late 90s or so?  It's mental training to become easier with falling and runouts, etc.  Arno based his book on the writings of Casteneda and the teachings of Don Juan Matus, a Yaqui sorcerer from Oaxaca, Mexico.  I got alot out of the book at the time.  Probably would again now if I applied it to aging...  The book is still in print and Arno has a website with info and training seminars, etc.  Yes, Dan, those were fun, deep discussions back in the day. Missing them!