A decent trad multipitch harness that won't break the bank?

Hi,

my current petzl sama harness is about 6 years old, and the sheathing is looking a bit funky, so i'm looking at replacements soon. i've only had 2 pairs of harnesses before, the previous one lasting me 8 years, so i don't have that much experience with harnesses.

I mostly do hard-ish sport routes (around 5.13 outdoors) and about 3-4 trips a year for 10+ pitch trad routes. so i'd like to have more multipitch oriented features, but hopefully not at the cost of mobility/restriction to hard-ish climbing.

my current complain about this harness is that:

1) 4 loops isn't enough for me to organize my gear. for some reason, when i try to fit my double rack with wires, it becomes so hard to unclip things because they're packed so tight.

2) Hanging belay isnt that comfortable. idk if this would be improved with other harnesses

3) when i'm setting for abseiling and have a PAS, double ropes, a prusick, it gets confusing, takes time to double check (maybe a longer belay loop?)

Any suggestions i should check out? (i mean, i think i might have another year left in my current harness. I thought petzl was ok until i looked on the MP forums, and now i dunno now, was looking at Ocun, Edelrid, or other brands that are decent quality, but because they're not that known, they're cheaper?)

thanks!

Harnesses: I think Beal and CAMP are at the head of the pack these days for comfort, but I haven't been paying that much attention lately.  Others could be doing pretty well too, but I wasn't impressed by the Edelrid harness I got not too long ago.  Petzl is fine, but you won't know what fits you until you go to the store and sit in them.

1: Ice clippers are fantastic, especially since the Petzl Caritool Evo's basically let you add extra loops to any harness.

2: Yes, those generally suck sooner or later, but sitting in different harnesses before buying will help you figure out which one you can tolerate longest.

3: Work on your gear management.  No harness will fix this for you.  Even having two separate belay loops will still be confusing if you don't keep things tidy.  Practise on the ground at home where you can safely work out all the kinks in your system until you find something that works for you.

Misty Mountain Cadillac.

There is no equal. 

Salamanizer Ski wrote:

Misty Mountain Cadillac.

There is no equal. 

OP asks for a harness that won't break the bank. Gets suggestion to buy nearly the most expensive recreational climbing harness in production    I have a MM Cadillac and I love it, but it's the opposite of being on the cheaper side, and that's before you tack on MM's ridiculous $20 shipping fee to get it to you.

OP, I've had the Petzl Adjama and Petzl Aquila. Both have been fine, I never had any issues with them. The Ocun Webee is over $100 so not quite as cheap as those first two, but it has a bunch of gear loops. My favorite so far on the less pricey side of things would be either the Petzl Aquila or the Black Diamond Solution Guide (over $100 though, 4 massive gear loops, holds a triple rack just fine).

I think based on what you're looking for, the Ocun Webee is probably your best bet. Padded, lots of ventilation, 2 belay loops, 7 gear loops, not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either

I haven't tried options from CAMP, Edelrid, Wild Country, or Mammut but each brand looks like it would have options to consider that could fit your criteria.

EDIT: You don't want a longer belay loop, if such a thing exists. You want a second belay loop (Misty Mountain harnesses can be customized to have this, but they're expensive. The Ocun Webee comes with a second belay loop). This could be accomplished by buying a Petzl Ring Open or an Edelrid Cupid, I've used the latter on a single belay loop harness of mine. However, those pull the hard points closer together which can be less comfortable. Otherwise you'd need to pay someone who knows what they're doing to put a second belay loop on for you (Misty Mountain does this, but it's going to be costly given their harnesses are on the higher price end to begin with + small extra fee for an additional belay loop)

I'm a big fan of the arcteryx harnesses. The 395a is great for everything, and has 4 ice clipper slots if you ever get into that. I also recently got the Skaha which is my new summer climbing harness for trad and sport. 

Both harnesses have 5 loops and rigid plastic gear loops that keep the gear easy to reach. I am able to fit a double rack of cams 0.1 - 4, 2 ovals of nuts, and 12 alpine draws (Yosemite racked into 3s) on just the front two gear loops of the skaha. Surprisingly comfy to hang in as well, maybe not enough for aid climbing but if your partner is climbing at a decent pace I haven't had any issues. The 395a has wider leg loops and waist and is a bit comfier but also sweatier, mine is permanently set up for ice climbing now.

For price, they are both expensive, but it seems like everyone and their mums have an arcteryx pro deal. I got the skaha through their outlet for more than half off.

For belay loop faff, I havent found any issues with the same setup as you (double ropes, PAS, prusik). I even LRS and TRS with just the one belay loop and haven't had any issues. I wasted some money on an open ring but never felt like I needed it so I don't use it, but I also don't aid climb where it seems like 2 loops is very useful.

Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

OP asks for a harness that won't break the bank. Gets suggestion to buy nearly the most expensive recreational climbing harness in production    

Cheap is a relative term.

Honestly, I didn’t even really pay attention to how much it was but I didn’t think it was the most expensive. I even added the extra belay loop. I probably should have paid more attention because I ordered a large when I wanted a medium. Now I have to order another new one and find something to do with the new one I just got lol. 

You have used your current harness for 6 years...why wouldn't you spend money to get a nice one to have for another 6 years? A harness isn't the piece of gear to make sacrifices on to save money. The "cheap" options only save you about 50 dollars - what am I missing here? 

If you are intent on being frugal just get the black diamond solution harness like everybody else has. 

grug g wrote:

You have used your current harness for 6 years...why wouldn't you spend money to get a nice one to have for another 6 years? A harness isn't the piece of gear to make sacrifices on to save money. The "cheap" options only save you about 50 dollars - what am I missing here? 

I was just thinking yesterday that it's amazing harnesses are as cheap as they are. For an item that gets replaced every ~5 years, is on your body for every single roped climb you do, and is interacted with hundreds to thousands of times in a day of climbing, it's worth spending the extra dough if you have it.

Metolius

Ocun Webee is a great choice. For me it was between the MM Sonic and the Webee, but I ended up choosing the Sonic since it has plastic gear loops. Too many horror stories of shredded fabric gear loops in OWs and chimneys. The Webee sport harnesses are a good compromise between price, comfort, and weight though.

grug g wrote:

You have used your current harness for 6 years...why wouldn't you spend money to get a nice one to have for another 6 years? A harness isn't the piece of gear to make sacrifices on to save money. The "cheap" options only save you about 50 dollars - what am I missing here? 

If you are intent on being frugal just get the black diamond solution harness like everybody else has. 

Yes, I agree, but the MM Cadillac looks so bulky that I do not want to use it for projecting, which is like, 95% of the hours i climb.

If there's a happy in between, i'm fine with spending like $150 on a multi year gear. but otherwize, if its a trad multipiptch specific harness, the cost is much harder to justify.

also, packing it for a flight looks bad...?

Sam Schwinghammer wrote:

3: Work on your gear management.  No harness will fix this for you.  Even having two separate belay loops will still be confusing if you don't keep things tidy.  Practise on the ground at home where you can safely work out all the kinks in your system until you find something that works for you.

But wouldn't you say gear small soft gear loops are not great at letting me manage them?

Sounds like you need 2 harnesses.

grug g wrote:

Sounds like you need 2 harnesses.

yeah, that's why i'm asking for a harness that wont break the bank. 

i don't have the luxury to be spending $200 for a second harness that i'll use 15 days a year? 

Louka Hendricks wrote:

Ocun Webee is a great choice. For me it was between the MM Sonic and the Webee, but I ended up choosing the Sonic since it has plastic gear loops. Too many horror stories of shredded fabric gear loops in OWs and chimneys. The Webee sport harnesses are a good compromise between price, comfort, and weight though.

How are you liking the Sonic? I don't want to ask a question that suggests a response but basically I'm wondering how much gear the Sonic carries and where you'd put in in terms of use. MM positions it as a lighter/Cadillac adjacent kinda option. Does it work for single pitch projecting and for trad multi pitch or is it too bulky to rely on for harder redpoint stuff?

Vicky Vic wrote:

But wouldn't you say gear small soft gear loops are not great at letting me manage them?

Racking is an entirely different question to rigging a rappel.  What I'm talking about is things like keeping your ropes, tether, rappel device, and backup nice and neat.  If you let any of these things twist around each other, you will quickly build a rat's nest.  For example, if your tether is girth hitched to your tie-ins to the right of your belay loop and you attach your extended rap device to your loop and then pick it up with your right hand bringing the extension under and to the right of your tether but then have to cross over the top of your tether because you're clipped to the right side of the anchor and the rope(s) is/are to the left of you, now when you go to attach your backup below everything you'll have the rap line, your device extension, and your tether all wrapped up and twisting around each other and you have to spend the next couple minutes verifying that your system is in fact rigged correctly(albeit messily) and possibly fighting to unweight your tether.

Now start the exact same scenario over.  You're clipped to the right side bolt of a two bolt horizontal anchor with a tether girth hitched to your tie-ins on the right side of your belay loop, and the rope is already threaded through the rings.  You start exactly the same as before by attaching an extended rappel device to your belay loop, but this time you catch yourself as you start to grab the device.  This time you stop and pass the device from your right hand to your left and bring the device up on the left side of your tether and rig your rappel.  Now you have the rap lines going straight from the rings to your primary rappel device(which is clipped to the top of your belay loop) and then down to your backup device which is clipped to the bottom of your belay loop.  Now all you have to do is pull yourself closer to the anchor, pull the slack through your primary device, and slide the backup as close to it as possible.  You lean back into the harness, and with a glance you can get both tactile and visual confirmation that everything is in fact rigged correctly while your tether hangs loosely off to your right waiting to be transferred from the bolt to a gear loop, or even removed entirely if you so choose.

There are many different systems too numerous to describe here, but most of them work pretty darn well.  The important thing here is that in this scenario you avoided lots of headache and second guessing yourself by taking 10s to just keep things tidy.

No matter what harness you get, big loops, small loops, soft loops, hard loops, gear on one loop will tend to bunch up, but if you keep things in the same order, you can just flip through the biners like a rolodex without even looking.

TLDR: make your bed nicely because you Will have to lie in it.

Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

How are you liking the Sonic? I don't want to ask a question that suggests a response but basically I'm wondering how much gear the Sonic carries and where you'd put in in terms of use. MM positions it as a lighter/Cadillac adjacent kinda option. Does it work for single pitch projecting and for trad multi pitch or is it too bulky to rely on for harder redpoint stuff?

I use it for both. I project 5.12+ with it and it's fine. It's certainly bulkier and heavier than a sport specific harness, but I really don't notice. I find it great for multipitch though. Handles a double rack + 1L + everything else just fine. Definitely the most comfy harness I've tried, with the exception of the MM Cadillac. I see it as a jack of all trades master of none harness. Works well (if not great) for pretty much anything, but not best in class for any one thing.

Louka Hendricks wrote:

I use it for both. I project 5.12+ with it and it's fine. It's certainly bulkier and heavier than a sport specific harness, but I really don't notice. I find it great for multipitch though. Handles a double rack + 1L + everything else just fine. Definitely the most comfy harness I've tried, with the exception of the MM Cadillac. I see it as a jack of all trades master of none harness. Works well (if not great) for pretty much anything, but not best in class for any one thing.

Thanks dude! I appreciate the reply, this is helpful

Vicky Vic wrote:

Hi,

my current petzl sama harness is about 6 years old, and the sheathing is looking a bit funky, so i'm looking at replacements soon. i've only had 2 pairs of harnesses before, the previous one lasting me 8 years, so i don't have that much experience with harnesses.

I mostly do hard-ish sport routes (around 5.13 outdoors) and about 3-4 trips a year for 10+ pitch trad routes. so i'd like to have more multipitch oriented features, but hopefully not at the cost of mobility/restriction to hard-ish climbing.

my current complain about this harness is that:

1) 4 loops isn't enough for me to organize my gear. for some reason, when i try to fit my double rack with wires, it becomes so hard to unclip things because they're packed so tight.

2) Hanging belay isnt that comfortable. idk if this would be improved with other harnesses

3) when i'm setting for abseiling and have a PAS, double ropes, a prusick, it gets confusing, takes time to double check (maybe a longer belay loop?)

Any suggestions i should check out? (i mean, i think i might have another year left in my current harness. I thought petzl was ok until i looked on the MP forums, and now i dunno now, was looking at Ocun, Edelrid, or other brands that are decent quality, but because they're not that known, they're cheaper?)

thanks!

I used to be a die-hard metolious fan. Theyre awesome, robust, comfy, and pretty cheap. The new 395 from Arcteryx is absolutely worth it. Lightweight, comfy, big gear loops, good to hang in. Camp harnesses are awesome, but the rise in front is a little short. make sure to try one on

Vicky Vic wrote:

i don't have the luxury to be spending $200 for a second harness that i'll use 15 days a year.

Four alternative ideas worth(?) trying:

1) Buy a £5 portable 5th gear loop to your ordinary 4-loop projecting harness for those 15 days. Due to a shoulder injury, I can no longer reliably reach one of my harness gear loops, so my standard 4-loop harness is effectively down to a 3-loop harness. I have resorted to carry half of my draws on a 2-ft nylon sling (18mm wide) over the shoulder (light-weight old fashioned gear sling). Carrying only draws on this is not anywhere near as messy as having cams/nuts on a gear sling as there's no need for searching and picking the right gear. Just grab one draw and done. This "gear sling" is also mighty handy when handing over the rack swapping leads or getting into an offwidth (leading or following).

2) "Stack" your cams when racking. Some people clip their 2nd cam to the biner of the first. For example the second 0.5 cam is clipped to the first 0.5. You will only have half as many biners clipped to your gear loops. The disadvantage is that the gear will hang a little further down, which can be trouble for shorter people. For the smallest of cams, I carry four cams on one biner (black+blue alien, purple+grey metolius). The tiniest of cams have less margin of error, so a perfectest fit is really needed for every placement. I'm not always sufficiently accurate in picking the exact right small cam, so trying them out is a lot easier when having several on the same biner (no need to return an "unfit" cam to the harness and grab a new one).

3) Carry less gear. Leave your PAS, prussik, cordelette, tricams, hexes, and doo-dads at home. Countless "tradsters" have slimmed down their racks in the past, so probably you can too. 

4) Only travel to places that don't have any hanging belays for your trad trips. 

Cosmic Hotdog wrote: I think based on what you're looking for, the Ocun Webee is probably your best bet. Padded, lots of ventilation, 2 belay loops, 7 gear loops, not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either

She was asking for a trad harness, not an aid harness. The more gear loops you have, the more (useless) gear you carry. 

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