New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #43

Man, so sorry about this.

I think that sometimes people who are dying find some of their friends avoiding them simply because they don't know how to deal with the situation or because it reminds them of their own mortality. So no matter how your contact goes. it's at least contact, which counts for a lot.

I don't know about you all... I've been feeling some big changes in my body that I've been trying to understand.  It's a vague feeling of just not wanting to lift, or to work hard at the gym, or exert myself anywhere.  I can walk forever, but 'meh' on the strength and power work.  

So, creatine is back in the conversation. Doing a diet analysis, I consume about 1 gram creatine daily.  It's those fast twitch muscle fibers of mine that are suffering from not enough.  I wish Erika was here to shed more light, but I'll keep reading.  

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"The "Serious Athlete" Drain: An average sedentary adult breaks down and excretes about 1 to 2 grams of creatine a day just to maintain standard brain, nerve, and cellular function. However, you are a 72-year-old active rock climber (p. 1). Your high muscle-recovery demands and intense ATP generation needs mean you are burning through your creatine stores far faster than a sedentary baseline (p. 1

Why Weight Lifting Feels "Missing" and UnappealingWhen those fast-twitch power fibers begin to recede, your body naturally rebels against resistance training. Lifting weights requires immediate, intense recruitment of those exact fading Type II fibers. Because the neural and muscular pathway feels less efficient, your brain translates this as a complete lack of desire or motivation to lift. It is not a lack of willpower; it is your nervous system recognizing a structural deficit. [1, 2, 3]As we cross into our 60s and 70s, female physiology undergoes a rapid, disproportionate atrophy and loss of these Type II fast-twitch muscle fibers. Because those specific fibers are shrinking, you lose your structural "zip." Your brain has to send a much louder, harder signal just to get the same amount of power out of your muscles, making you feel like you are constantly "forcing" yourself to do hard work. [1, 2, 3] Why Creatine Is the Missing Dietary PieceThis brings us right back to Dr. Stacy Sims and your previous experience. Type II fast-twitch muscle fibers are entirely reliant on phosphocreatine (ATP) for fuel. They do not use oxygen or fat; they use the exact explosive cellular energy loop that creatine provides. [1, 2]Because your body is losing these fibers and your high-protein diet only provides a baseline level of creatine, your remaining power fibers are constantly running on a half-empty fuel tank. When you take creatine, you are instantly maximizing the energy availability to those remaining fast-twitch fibers. This is why you feel noticeably better,  and more energized every time you try it—your body is recognizing the exact fuel it has been missing. [1, 2, 3]

Lori Milas wrote:

I don't know about you all... I've been feeling some big changes in my body that I've been trying to understand.  It's a vague feeling of just not wanting to lift, or to work hard at the gym, or exert myself anywhere.  I can walk forever, but 'meh' on the strength and power work.  

So, creatine is back in the conversation. Doing a diet analysis, I consume about 1 gram creatine daily.  It's those fast twitch muscle fibers of mine that are suffering from not enough.  I wish Erika was here to shed more light, but I'll keep reading.  

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"The "Serious Athlete" Drain: An average sedentary adult breaks down and excretes about 1 to 2 grams of creatine a day just to maintain standard brain, nerve, and cellular function. However, you are a 72-year-old active rock climber (p. 1). Your high muscle-recovery demands and intense ATP generation needs mean you are burning through your creatine stores far faster than a sedentary baseline (p. 1

Why Weight Lifting Feels "Missing" and UnappealingWhen those fast-twitch power fibers begin to recede, your body naturally rebels against resistance training. Lifting weights requires immediate, intense recruitment of those exact fading Type II fibers. Because the neural and muscular pathway feels less efficient, your brain translates this as a complete lack of desire or motivation to lift. It is not a lack of willpower; it is your nervous system recognizing a structural deficit. [1, 2, 3]As we cross into our 60s and 70s, female physiology undergoes a rapid, disproportionate atrophy and loss of these Type II fast-twitch muscle fibers. Because those specific fibers are shrinking, you lose your structural "zip." Your brain has to send a much louder, harder signal just to get the same amount of power out of your muscles, making you feel like you are constantly "forcing" yourself to do hard work. [1, 2, 3]Why Creatine Is the Missing Dietary PieceThis brings us right back to Dr. Stacy Sims and your previous experience. Type II fast-twitch muscle fibers are entirely reliant on phosphocreatine (ATP) for fuel. They do not use oxygen or fat; they use the exact explosive cellular energy loop that creatine provides. [1, 2]Because your body is losing these fibers and your high-protein diet only provides a baseline level of creatine, your remaining power fibers are constantly running on a half-empty fuel tank. When you take creatine, you are instantly maximizing the energy availability to those remaining fast-twitch fibers. This is why you feel noticeably better,  and more energized every time you try it—your body is recognizing the exact fuel it has been missing. [1, 2, 3]

Lori I have been taking creatine for about a year now. I take about 5 grams most days. I'm not sure you would get a lot of benefit from 1 gram. I most certainly feel it has a cognitive function benefit, and what I've read seems to support this feeling.  I think you do a lot more general activity than I; I climb three to four days a week but it's mostly indoors these days (so no walking really) and other than that I'm quite a couch potato.  

When I caught my daughter with my phone:

ed esmond wrote:

He’s a great friend.  I think he would agree I’ve been an equally good one.  I want that to continue, but I don’t what to say, or how to say it.  How do you have a normal, bestie conversation with a bestie who’s dying?

Any thoughts?

ed “for once, words fail me…’ e

Sorry you have to walk this path, Ed. What I'm about to say is a bit presumptuous, because it doesn't involve a terminal situation.  

About 55 years ago, I contracted a viral inflammation of the spinal cord that paralyzed me from the waist down.  This is a time when I was pretty much at my peak as a climber.  Most of my friends were active climbers too.  So now I'm in the neurology ward in a wheelchair. Not an actual death, but certainly a very abrupt alteration of life.  And friends come to visit, and it is clear that they don't know what to say. Many of them enter the room looking stricken.  And what I can tell you is that I was beyond grateful for their presence, inarticulate or not.  What comforted me was that they were there, not what they said or didn't say.  It taught me that you always go when someone is in crisis, because what matters to them--what mattered to me--was that people were there to share, even if wordlessly, in the reality of what was happening.

Words are neither adequate to the moment nor in any way required. Don't think twice about what to say; it doesn't matter if you joke about a fallen soufflé or ponder the nature of life after death. Or both. Being there is not only the best thing you can do for your friend, it is also the best thing you can do for yourself, because (and this too from experience) not having been there will weigh on you after your friend is gone.

PS. I had a full recovery. But at the time, nothing was guaranteed, and the future, for an extremely active athlete, was certainly looking dark.

Todd Berlier wrote:

When I caught my daughter with my phone:

Now, now, Todd. As a father of two daughters...

I approve.

EDIT:

And rgold - that's just a wonderful post, thanks.

Brad Young wrote:

Oh man, did you hit the nail on the head! The amount of time and energy I spend keeping track of climbing information for SPH and Pinnacles!

All because I want ALL of the information out there and I want it available to everyone. And the whole task? Self appointed, of course, so I have no-one to complain to or about.

And Guy; your use of "we" above? Do YOU have information about Sonora Pass climbing that you haven't shared with me? Information about that particular piton? Feel free to come on up here and tell me in person. While we do a few pitches.

Brad … WE in the sense that US climbers get around. I have only driven Sonora pass a few times. The ancient rap anchor looks to be from the sixties/seventies….. if I had to guess.

I know a place, at Shuteye, that I think was the location of Royals Rock Climbing school. Hinterlands….

Located across the road from an almost abandoned campground, old smelly outhouses, Tables made from hand hewn logs- it had all the hallmarks of a 1930’s CCC camp site.

It’s a really nice hang. I used it for a few weeks when I was rehabbing after 5 months in a full leg cast. Stumble across street, climb some slab, stumble down to the creek and sit in it. While exploring the rocks around there I found many signs that this was the place- like a pin stamped “RR”- he liked to spend time at.

So who climbed up there BITD? John Muir, Bestor Robinson, Ax Nelson, Galen, DMT?

Who knows?

ed esmond wrote:

...

He’s had throat cancer, so at this point, verbal communication is not happening.  Texting is how we stay connected. He’s still lucid and with a dry sense of humor.

He’s a great friend.  I think he would agree I’ve been an equally good one.  I want that to continue, but I don’t what to say, or how to say it.  How do you have a normal, bestie conversation with a bestie who’s dying?

Any thoughts?

I'm so sorry, Ed. I think the answer depends on your friend, and your friendship. People are so different. Does he want to talk (communicate) about death? Maybe he wants to be reminded of the good times you had together. I'd start with the good times, and try to let him know that if he wants to discuss deeper things, I'd be open to it. Only problem is that I tend to cry a lot in these situations, I'm not the best at emotional support.

Guy Keesee wrote:

Brad … WE in the sense that US climbers get around. I have only driven Sonora pass a few times. The ancient rap anchor looks to be from the sixties/seventies….. if I had to guess.

I know a place, at Shuteye, that I think was the location of Royals Rock Climbing school. Hinterlands….

Located across the road from an almost abandoned campground, old smelly outhouses, Tables made from hand hewn logs- it had all the hallmarks of a 1930’s CCC camp site.

It’s a really nice hang. I used it for a few weeks when I was rehabbing after 5 months in a full leg cast. Stumble across street, climb some slab, stumble down to the creek and sit in it. While exploring the rocks around there I found many signs that this was the place- like a pin stamped “RR”- he liked to spend time at.

So who climbed up there BITD? John Muir, Bestor Robinson, Ax Nelson, Galen, DMT?

Who knows?

Brad and Guy, My mentor when I was becoming a climbing guide in the 70’s was a man named Vince Lee. Vince was a Marine climbing instructor for the Marine recon units and a survival instructor at their camp Pickel below Sonora pass in the 60’s. That pin has the look of the old military pins that Vince still had a pile of. He loved working there climbing and skiing and teaching. He was a great teacher with unbounded enthusiasm for adventure. He said it was way way better than going to Vietnam too. When I saw your photo my first thought was of Vince. I could see him pounding that pin in way back in the day.

Guy Keesee wrote:

So who climbed up there BITD? John Muir, Bestor Robinson, Ax Nelson, Galen, DMT?

Who knows?

Of those listed, I know DMT did! Some of the most difficult things I've done on Sonora Pass include trying to pry information out of him about routes he's done (he likes to keep it quiet and let others discover for themselves).

I've even succeeded a time or two.

He and I have very different philosophies but completely respect each others' ways (...it is my perception). We even make fun of each other now and then.

If he is listening? I've got tons of time between now and the beginning of August to go up to those formations above the big curve on the way to Chipmunk Flat. People are prying around and I'd like to at least keep your names for the various formations (young people, it's always young people who are nosing around). I'm pretty free from June 29 through 30, for example.

Norm Larson wrote:

Brad and Guy, My mentor when I was becoming a climbing guide in the 70’s was a man named Vince Lee. Vince was a climbing instructor for the Marines at their camp below Sonora pass in the 60’s. That pin has the look of the old military pins that Vince still had a pile of. He loved working there climbing and skiing and teaching. He was a great teacher with unbounded enthusiasm for adventure. He said it was way way better than going to Vietnam too. When I saw your photo my first thought was of Vince. I could see him pounding that pin in way back in the day.

Thanks for sharing, Norm. I'd never heard of Vince but from your comments that pin may well have been his. I'd had ideas about a long-ago local climber up here; he taught at the Junior College and took classes out climbing to this Chipmunk Flat area (Dale Keyser, since passed away).  But you have me "con Vinced" that yours is a stronger possibility.

We thought we'd get two new routes led up there today, but I fell off of this one twice while trying to lead it (it was hot, I was low energy and I’m old - I’ll redpoint it another day - "Sleight of Hand," only 10b but pretty tricky in three places).

Meanwhile, 74 year old Dave Harden onsight led this first ascent, using the wide crack for pro but mostly face climbing ("Fuller Road," 5.7 with an odd "stand on a spike of rock" move).

And of course, my girls always find the coolest places to hang out:

“conVinced” I like that Brad. Thanks

He conVinced me to do many trips that were verging on epics!

Sunset night before last. This place is 4 miles up the road and we often go there for dinner or desert... 

I much appreciate everyone who responded to my post about Rick…The message I got out of all  the replies was: be the most sincere, loving, earnest and caring friend.  

Pretty simple: why wouldn't that be the best approach? That was my original thinking, but it was helpful to hear it from other thoughtful people.

Thanks all.

ed “A really smart person once told me: “getting old isn’t for sissies” e

Ps.  Ward:  In many ways Rick and Jason are/were very much alike; they both had so many things going against them, but they overcame.  We’re both lucky to have known them.  Additionally, I don’t think Rick knows he’s ready, yet…

Pps. Rich, your telling of your paralysis story is pure gold…. I desperately wanted to avoid the “looking stricken” with my Rick.  Rationally, perhaps irrationally, he deserves more.  Beautiful story, told beautifully.

I've been watching podcasts of and about SpaceX and also trying to find my position on Elon. He's growing on me. 

His description of Starship Flight 5 reminded me of exactly how I view every climb I'm about to embark upon... "A custom built tower with arms made to catch the heaviest flying object ever made and pluck it out of the air..  It'll weigh about 250 tons, plummeting at speed of sound, coming in really fast, pretty much down. So then they light the engine so it will slow itself down, The engine has to take out the XY error is, and then drop the velocity to basically zero.  The vehicle will be descending through the arms of the tower and it will hopefully not sheer off and crumble.

Success is one of the possible outcomes.The probabllity is uncertain, but it's above zero."  

Honest to god that caught me off guard... because I am not a macho and certain climber and it does frequently feel this unlikely and complicated.  I cross my fingers ahead of what looks like an impossible task, and go.  As long as the probability is greater than zero, i'm willing to try.    

This was Tiptoe to Topanga and there was no certainty that I would ever make it.  (I did)

Interesting thing about this route, I tore my meniscus on one of the opening moves onto the rock.  It was SO painful and I was home rehabbing for almost 6 weeks, and dreading ever going back.  I just couldn't face trying again.  However, Bob had sussed out launching onto this route and suggested that there was a safer way to do it.  I trusted him and stepped on up.  It was painless and shockingly easy... I just hadn't seen it the first time.  

What's that saying "I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."?   Thomas Edison

It seems like rock climbing is exactly that trial and error, compounding technique with strength over time.  And hoping the probability of success is greater than zero. 

Elon is a piece of shit that has robbed us blind.  

I'm with you Lori. Disgustingly rich men turn me on! I have a custom pillowcase with Elon on one side and Jensen on the other. Often I go to bed to bed early just to be with them. I think it's time for a nap!  😉

My neighbor worked for USAID, and the president he voted for DOGE’d his entire career and family’s stability- Musk was the henchman. Same neighbor officially announced yesterday that he is opening a childcare business directly next door to me, and every one of his immediate neighbors strongly opposes it. While this decision is squarely my neighbors, it’s pretty hard not to let some of that disdain slop over onto Trump & Musk.

What I've learned in the last 12 months is that civilization is moving at a mind blowing speed.  Things I was paying attention to a year seem no longer relevant.  It makes those who lived through the Industrial Revolution look painfully slow.  

I frankly just got burnt out on playing political team sports... am I a Democrat or a Republican?  And everything that goes with those affiliations, completely unexamined. 

So, hearing Tony hate on Elon, I thought... wait a minute, is any of this TRUE?  Was he a really dumb, uneducated kid who inherited a ton of money and funneled it into a business (Tesla) he knew nothing about?  

None of that is true.  On the other hand, we all watched him fire up the chainsaw for DOGE and Trump.  

So... what to make of all this now?  What about all the tech geniuses who are starting to make politics and congress look hopelessly ignorant and outdated?  Did you notice the guys who had seats at G7?  

And what about Jensen?  Anthropic.  Morris Chang.  Zuckerberg. and all the guys and gals who are now at the center of this astronomic advance?  Do we have to look at and judge them strictly through the lens of political party?  

LIke it or not, AI is here, these super stars are here... we can turn away, or hold them closely and be a part of the movement. 

I'm just learning what I can--which has been so fun--and holding it all with open hands.  

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