Half Dome has fallen.

So you're off on a personal tirade that has little to do with the actual topic at hand? And you don't have any real knowledge about the person you're attacking? Go make a donation to the climbing nonprofit that Tanner started or fuck off. 

Jack Johnsonwrote:

He’s the only one I’m bitching about, to be clear.

You can respect that he wants to speak up on keeping Snake Dike R-rated — that’s a real position, fine. I don’t have to respect it, and I care about his take specifically because his sponsorships and status give it reach.

Here’s my actual standard: I respect climbing pros who give back — new routes, mentorship, charity. Sending hard shit and spraying about it endlessly doesn’t make you an authority on access or ethics, it makes you good at climbing and good at Instagram. Those aren’t the same thing. If Taner’s put in on the giving-back side, that’s great, genuinely.

And yeah, I’ll own that I’ve got a long-standing disdain for the new era of climbing influencers, and Taner’s probably catching more of it than he’s earned personally. That’s on me. Doesn’t change the argument.

On bolts: I’m not camp retrobolt — said that several times. But more bolts correlating with fewer people getting off route isn’t an opinion, it’s just what happens. 

It's a bit wild to me that you are continuing to throw jabs at Tanner. Perhaps ease up on the ChatGPT a bit or at least listen when it says "I don't know if you should post that" and don't make it edit the apology out of the apology it tries to write for you. If Tanner's stuff on Insta bugs you, deal with it there, or better yet, stop following him on Insta. He's not the one who keeps bringing up his status and accolades, but your fixation with this topic truly makes you seem jealous of his success.

You keep saying you aren't in favor of retrobolts while simultaneously making arguments in support of them and attacking Tanner for opposing them. If you actually support new bolts on Snake Dike, you should cut to the chase and make your case. If you really don't care about the bolts, then you have successfully derailed this thread to nurse an unrelated personal grudge that now borders on a crusade, and I'd strongly urge you not to continue it.

Congrats on the sponsorship Tanner, if you have haters this devoted, it seems you really have made it big!

To AR — It directly relates: the whole topic is whether Snake Dike stays R-rated. Using your influence as a pro to help keep an entry-level route dangerous is, in my opinion, just bad style. Climbing is pointless and has no rules, so style is all there is. It’s subjective — that’s my view, you’ve got yours, fine.

On the nonprofit: I literally said if he gives back, that’s great. You say he does — so, great, genuinely. Respect. I still disagree with his style on the great Snake Dike debacle of 2026. Both can be true.

To CH — Is it really that hard to grasp? I don’t think the route needs more bolts, and I don’t care enough personally to modify the route or make a stink either way — but I can still empathize with people trying to reduce accidents, misguided or not. I’m not defending Sloan’s actions, I’m defending the validity of a viewpoint in favor of safety, even if that’s not my view. And I think it’s cooler — as a pro — to take up the side of safety, at least as it relates to entry-level climbs and climbers, even if it’s not popular. Again, just my opinion.

Anyway, I’ve made my point and I’ll leave it there. Been fun.

I have never been on the climb so my opinion is useless. I do support making a stupidly dangerous climb safer but also don't support over doing it.. If you were to add bolts to an existing climb they would have to be done absolutely perfectly with a lot of thought. Not sure that's how this was done????  It sounds like the FA would have supported  a subtle and precise job of retro bolting but is upset over the shotgun approach? 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I have never been on the climb so my opinion is useless. I do support making a stupidly dangerous climb safer but also don't support over doing it.. If you were to add bolts to an existing climb they would have to be done absolutely perfectly with a lot of thought. Not sure that's how this was done????  It sounds like the FA would have supported  a subtle and precise job of retro bolting but is upset over the shotgun approach? 

Beck hasn't always been absolutely precise about where to add bolts. And there has been confusion over what he has said. His detail has increased over time, even up to an interview after the retro bolt by Sloan. 

CAUTION: I am using google's "AI mode" for the below numbers and other references.  Tried to ask AI enough specific questions and correlate with memory.  But someone please correct if they know otherwise and I will update.

A) Before Parsons's accident (Aug 2022):  on FA (July, 1965), single belay bolts and two protection bolts; Roper wrote he added four bolts (1966), "mainly" at belay stations and the route became "instantly popular"; bolts were still controversial in the Valley; in other places, it is stated that Roper doubled the belay bolts and added two protection bolts; at some point, Beck wanted one or two more bolts to certain pitches - unclear if before or after Roper's additions

B) After that accident (between Aug 2022 and Mar 2024), but before Sloan's retro bolt: Beck asks for more bolts; "five protection bolts where it is run out" - some interpreted this as five total for the route (me included) which apparently was not what Beck meant; see 'C'

C) After Sloan's retro bolt (June 2026):  Beck said 4 to 5 protection bolts for pitches 3,4, and 5. Pitches 1 and 2 are fine the way they are. And nothing more needed above P5. And "Even the most beginner beginner doesn't need ..." as many bolts as Sloan installed. 

Other sources:  here (March 2024); here (June 2026);  Roper's book in chapter "CAMP4: Recollections of a Yosemite Rock Climber"

Sloan has added:

• 5 or 6 bolts to an alternate start to P1
• 3 bolts near the end of P2
• 8 bolts to P3

Sloan has not indicated that he finished what he had planned. It is evident Sloan didn't talk to Beck about what Sloan planned to do. So, by the "FA rule", Sloan could have been doing a liberal interpretation of 'B'?

I don't consider Beck's current "4 to 5 protection bolts for pitches 3,4, and 5" as imprecise. My recollection is that those pitches are pretty uniform in difficulty making length of lead after last protection more of the determinant for the next bolt location (adjusted to best nearby stance).

There is of course also debate about how much an FA-ists opinion matters relative to that of others after 60 years and many many ascents.  Some are for returning the route to what it was before Sloan's retro bolt.

Jack Johnsonwrote:

Here’s my actual standard: I respect climbing pros who give back — new routes, mentorship, charity. Sending hard shit and spraying about it endlessly doesn’t make you an authority on access or ethics, it makes you good at climbing and good at Instagram. Those aren’t the same thing. If Taner’s put in on the giving-back side, that’s great, genuinely.

I apologize for the thread drift here but I will defend myself with my final comment on this thread as this is just incoherently backwards. I have quite literally oriented my entire adult life towards the service of others. I spent the entire decade of my 20s serving as a medic in special operations helping hundreds of locals over several deployments. I joined the board of a non profit (Crux Wilderness Therapy) during that time rising to Vice President of the organization after several years where I still serve today. We have provided 100% free AMGA guides through clinics to over 500 veterans in my tenure providing a wilderness therapy resource to those struggling mentally, as well as a dozen scholarships for veterans to become guides. I have personally donated such a significant portion of my own income to this that my wife has asked me to dial it back a bit. I am about to send my 8th “alpine stimulus package” to someone I’ve never met which contains everything needed to get into outdoor climbing (rope, single rack, draws, belay devices, biners) completely out of my own pocket as a part of my ongoing campaign to equip newer climbers with free second hand gear I’ve been calling The Cheater-stone Initiative.

I don’t “climb hard” and have prefaced every single podcast/post/interview with that statement, as in I make it a point to make that clear first and foremost to not misrepresent my own abilities. I’ve never even climbed a 5.13, my entire message has always been “you can climb 5.10 and still do cool stuff if you’re willing to work hard”. I am quite literally the weakest “professional” climber I know of and have leaned into that quite hard hoping to inspire others who don’t climb hard to still dream big if that’s their goal.

Instagram which started as a way to simply share what we were doing with friends, has honestly turned into the bane of my existence. I am grateful for the opportunity to be able to climb full time with the income generated, but I want to delete the app every fucking day due to interactions like this. It’s beyond frustrating to have put in the amount of work I have to stay positive and true to my own beliefs and have them immediately inverted and crucified by account after account for years on end, always nameless and faceless without a tether to reality whatsoever. I am literally just another climber taking pictures with my phone and sharing them occasionally like everyone else, I don’t even own a camera and have never edited a photo in my life. If that has you this tangled up I would suggest you block me across the board for your own mental health.

If you feel so inclined and as passionate about charity and giving back as expressed here a small donation goes a long way with us at Crux! Will keep an eye out for your contribution.

https://cruxwilderness.org/ 

Are the new bolts still there?

This has become a meme

From Facebook -

Here's a selection of comments on Climbing's FB about the Snake Dike fiasco. One thing is crystal clear. Some of the men are not lonely enough. And given the derision regarding "pussy," maybe that's not really surprising?

• " we're at a point in climbing now where people are pussy bolting 5.7's"
• "Grow a pair of nuts and do it the way it was originally done by the guy that set the bar"
• "Lesbians everywhere have been pissed ever since this was first named."
• "Don’t have the balls, don’t get on the wall"
• "If you're a pussy and can't handle it then pick a route that matches the size of your balls"
• "Hey, if you ain't got the nuts for it stay off of it. I'm an old climber, old."
• "Everyone that's cool is adding 13 bolts to a classic run out jaunt in the hills is a god damn pussy and should just give up there new little hobby."
• "shut up kook. Go ride an e-bike"
• " The snowflake takes of everyone needing to have accessibility is fckin bullsht"
• "You are a modern shallow putz, with no concerns for history, ethical considerations or good style."
• "Gone are the days of real hard Men. Next they'll be retro bolting Astroman." (or the Nose. Or the Bachar Yerian. Etc, etc.)
• " I'm now 76 and stopped climbing 20 years ago, but if I was still in my prime I would go chop those bolts."

Someone above called Snake Dike an “entry level route” (the logical conclusion, apparently, being that it ought to be bolted as such). Maybe that’s part of the problem. Yes, the grade is 5.7 but I personally don’t consider it to be an entry level route. (So leave it bolted as it was prior to this nonsense.)

Phil Bertwrote:

Are the new bolts still there?

It would appear to be yes is the correct answer.

I guess they are still discussing it. 

Mark Starrwrote:

Change is difficult, let's see how we can handle it.

Quite poorly, it seems.

Perhaps the wise thing to do would be to slow down. Remove and patch most of the new bolts, leaving a few that would bring it closer to Beck's suggestions. He said 4-5 on a couple pitches, so leave 3-4. Show good faith and self-control. The rest can be removed later after better conversations occur. This suggestion probably won't be given a second thought by the people chopping, of course. They want decisive and immediate action, but the rock isn't going anywhere so what's the rush? There's no way to properly pull and patch 16 bolts in a day anyway.

Yes, sloan should have started a good faith conversation, but because he didn't that absolves everyone else from it? Rules for thee and all...

We should be disappointed in our discourse surrounding this issue. It's made climbers look like a bunch of petty children.

The real lesson here is for anyone that FAs new routes. Don't ask your buddies to finish your work and don't expect strangers (the community) to finish your work. You will be disappointed. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. Don't be lazy — if your routes are worth climbing, finish them properly.

jt newgardwrote:

Based on the thread title, I thought Half Dome exfoliated itself into a pile of rubble.

Yeah, pretty dramatic. But so is the whole thread.

Tanner Jameswrote:

I apologize for the thread drift here but I will defend myself with my final comment on this thread as this is just incoherently backwards. I have quite literally oriented my entire adult life towards the service of others. I spent the entire decade of my 20s serving as a medic in special operations helping hundreds of locals over several deployments. I joined the board of a non profit (Crux Wilderness Therapy) during that time rising to Vice President of the organization after several years where I still serve today. We have provided 100% free AMGA guides through clinics to over 500 veterans in my tenure providing a wilderness therapy resource to those struggling mentally, as well as a dozen scholarships for veterans to become guides. I have personally donated such a significant portion of my own income to this that my wife has asked me to dial it back a bit. I am about to send my 8th “alpine stimulus package” to someone I’ve never met which contains everything needed to get into outdoor climbing (rope, single rack, draws, belay devices, biners) completely out of my own pocket as a part of my ongoing campaign to equip newer climbers with free second hand gear I’ve been calling The Cheater-stone Initiative.

I don’t “climb hard” and have prefaced every single podcast/post/interview with that statement, as in I make it a point to make that clear first and foremost to not misrepresent my own abilities. I’ve never even climbed a 5.13, my entire message has always been “you can climb 5.10 and still do cool stuff if you’re willing to work hard”. I am quite literally the weakest “professional” climber I know of and have leaned into that quite hard hoping to inspire others who don’t climb hard to still dream big if that’s their goal.

Instagram which started as a way to simply share what we were doing with friends, has honestly turned into the bane of my existence. I am grateful for the opportunity to be able to climb full time with the income generated, but I want to delete the app every fucking day due to interactions like this. It’s beyond frustrating to have put in the amount of work I have to stay positive and true to my own beliefs and have them immediately inverted and crucified by account after account for years on end, always nameless and faceless without a tether to reality whatsoever. I am literally just another climber taking pictures with my phone and sharing them occasionally like everyone else, I don’t even own a camera and have never edited a photo in my life. If that has you this tangled up I would suggest you block me across the board for your own mental health.

If you feel so inclined and as passionate about charity and giving back as expressed here a small donation goes a long way with us at Crux! Will keep an eye out for your contribution.

https://cruxwilderness.org/

Tanner, you are so far past the kooks on their keyboards. They could never understand how gracious and good hearted you are, not to mention a world class athlete and total bad ass. Do anything decent in life and there will be some loser trying to knock you down. I know you know it. It is brutal to have to defend ones self but the internet can take things and leave things in a jacked up state far from the truth. You are one of the most impressive people I ever met. I don't blame you for setting the record straight. It is the times we live in. Appreciate you and yours. You more than most deserve every nickel of sponsorship and donation you get. To company bosses reading this if any, Tanner is a first class A-1 dude. You will only benefit to have him on your books. 

To the chump stirring the pot, piss off. You are like the guy who shot John Lennon. His actual quote: "Because I am the biggest nobody in the world I shot the biggest somebody so people would remember me." 

Tanner Jameswrote:

If you feel so inclined and as passionate about charity and giving back as expressed here a small donation goes a long way with us at Crux! Will keep an eye out for your contribution.

https://cruxwilderness.org/

Well I have been pretty amazed by this thread.  I wish I could say I have been entertained, but appalled might be a better word. It's hard to turn away.

But this last couple of pages I have learned something.  I still climb quite a bit but I don't follow Instagram or the magazines, etc.  So I had no idea who Tanner James was except that he is a climber guy whose posts I sometimes see on MP and typically like. When he posted that he was going to Snake Dike to pull bolts, I privately sent him a message offering to send funds for his gas money. He thanked me but declined the offer.

Now I have come to understand that he is to some degree a well known climber and is involved with a non-profit that supports Veterans.  I was happy to see the link to send my support to that. If all the other many people who want to see the bolts pulled on a legacy alpine Grade III route (by no definition a beginner route whatever the rating), but who cannot get there to participate in person, will contribute to this Veteran's nonprofit, something good will come out of this thread.

Jack Johnsonwrote:

To CH — Is it really that hard to grasp? I don’t think the route needs more bolts, and I don’t care enough personally to modify the route or make a stink either way — but I can still empathize with people trying to reduce accidents, misguided or not. I’m not defending Sloan’s actions, I’m defending the validity of a viewpoint in favor of safety, even if that’s not my view. And I think it’s cooler — as a pro — to take up the side of safety, at least as it relates to entry-level climbs and climbers, even if it’s not popular. Again, just my opinion.

Still waiting on you or anyone to show which accidents would have been prevented by more bolts. Already been explained several times over here that the last several "big" incidents on SD were climber error, and had little/nothing to do with bolts. So yes, it's hard to grasp a person who talks about things that don't exist (accidents that have never happened b/c of a lack of bolts).

Anyway, I’ve made my point and I’ll leave it there. Been fun.

Your point seemed to be to pick a bone with one particular person, when there's a boatload of us who 1) are actively are engaged in the same correction process, 2) actively share the same viewpoint, or 3) adhere to a similar code of ethics, which you seem to struggle to comprehend the importance of.

side note, I once met a young valley monkey who had moved to the valley at 19, was working for aramark as a desk clerk at night, and climbing his ass off as much as possible...at least on fixed lines and with other people, b/c he had something like 4 cams to his name. I had recently been gifted a couple of UL 0.4 cams, so I gave him one, NWT. He was very appreciative and was kind enough to not make me feel bad by mentioning that some random guy named tanner had given him a full rack earlier that week, as apparently tanner had heard he was a San Diego kid and was new to the valley and had no gear. Made my gift pale in comparison but certainly showed me what kind of person that tanner guy was. Going to guess only a handful of people knew about these gifts until this thread. Thanks for hitting the road, Jack...it's prob your best option, considering how far in your mouth that foot is jammed. 

What is being debated in large part is the future of our sport and in particular, the future of certified classic rock climbs mostly put up in the Golden Age of American Rock Climbing. 

We should proceed very carefully to a preserve their essential original character with an eye to the route's future, not to bolt any of them into vanilla mediocrity and create commodities for rapid consumption to then be discarded from our memories like the wrapper of Tuesday's Chik-Fil-A.

The end result of Sloan's "Modern Classic" would be a route with as much meaning as Wednesday's fresh course setting in the corner of the gym with a better view. Consume when new, then discard as the grease and chalk pile up. Then go looking for the next "comfortized" course, illegally drilled into an acceptable level for the most minimal skill standard, to ruin again for the future. It is shortsighted.

This is not about any egos or memories of the past. It's about protecting an experience for future climbers on a classic route. For those wanting more bolts on established classics you don't have to understand why those with more experience disagree because you simply do not have the experience to grasp the evolution of your own climbing that will take place.  Sorry (not sorry) it's true. You will regret making things too easy for yourself or you will find that climbing is simply not for you. Why? Because Climbing is not a destination where once your bucket list is complete you "have done climbing". It is a path and how you take that path is where the real meaning is to be found. Don't take shortcuts on the Path because you will miss the countless miracles along the way and opportunity to be surprised by yourself. If the most difficult path is not for you, don't take it from others while you figure that out.

The onus is on the "more bolts" crowd to prove that it creates greater safety. I have seen no evidence that is so. A sparse protection scheme is self-regulating so that usually only those with the ability attempt a route. All more bolts do is create more traffic until you have the Half Dome Cables, Westside version.

We can also create more moderate and well protected routes for the new to climbing outdoors/traditional routes to cut their chops on until they are ready and fit enough to be up for the mental challenge of many classics. I was again in Yosemite this last weekend and saw moderate line after moderate line that could be added to give new climbers more than enough opportunity to train their game on. 

Being more experienced route developers, we can add well protected climbs for newbies and work with FAs to perhaps retro-bolt some obscurities. The hope is after doing those the newbies will look for greater challenges on the classics and then appreciate that they still exist.

We must preserve what is truly unique about our sport. Not in every case, but certainly in the most important cases.

How do we decide which to save? Simple, if it has thousands of ascents as is, it's not broken and doesn't have to be "fixed".

John Tuttlewrote:

The onus is on the "more bolts" crowd to prove that it creates greater safety. I have seen no evidence that is so. All more bolts do is create more traffic until you have the Half Dome Cables, westside version.

How do we decide which to save? Simple, if it has thousands of ascents as is, it's not broken and doesn't have to be fixed.

Even IF it made it safer, so what? Risk is inherent in trad climbing. The FA had fifty years to go back and fix it, or request someone else do it. They didn’t, and meanwhile, likely ten thousand people or more climbed it without a problem. Leave it alone. 

Tony Danzawrote:

Even IF it made it safer, so what? Risk is inherent in trad climbing. The FA had fifty years to go back and fix it, or request someone else do it. They didn’t, and meanwhile, likely ten thousand people or more climbed it without a problem. Leave it alone. 

Like I said: If it has many, many accents, it's not something that needs to be fixed.

If it's ie 5.7X and never getting climbed, it's broken, imo. The alternative is apparently the Sloanificattion of classics as the crew transitioning from Gym to Outside simply does not have that much to climb on in YNP. They will motivate the Sloans of the world to ruin classics.

John Tuttlewrote:

Like I said: if it has many many accents, it's not something that needs to be fixed.

If it's ie 5.7x and never getting climbed, it's broken, imo. The alternative is apparently the Sloanificattion of classics.

Agree 100%. If ten people a year climbed snake dike, I’d be a lot more ok with all this. But it has more ticks here than Royal arches, so people saying the runouts are gatekeeping is hilarious. 

John Tuttle wrote: The alternative is apparently the Sloanificattion of classics.

I had to look that word up: 

sloan·i·fi·ca·tion /ˌsloʊnɪfɪˈkeɪʃən/

sloan·i·fy /ˈsloʊnɪˌfaɪ/ (verb)

1. To achieve a state of aggressive, cringeworthy notoriety by performing an act of pure, unadulterated narcissism. Seeking fame not through talent or achievement, but through self-aggrandizing and thoroughly lame behavior.

• Example: "He completely sloanified the entire town hall meeting by grabbing the microphone just to announce his new lifestyle blog."

2. To systematically strip the soul, character, and uniqueness out of a masterpiece, leaving it aggressively bland and corporate.

• Example: "That dickhead sloanified a classic climbing route, making it just another clip-up."

3. To commit an act of public nuisance that a population universally despises, solely to satisfy your own microscopic ego or personal greed.

• Example: "In Paris today, a vandal sloanified the Mona Lisa by painting a mustache on it and asking nearby museum goers for money for his actions."