Is having a thread about snake dike a worthwhile discussion?

Tal Mwrote:

Surely your baseline expectation for a wedge bolt presumably hand-drilled in excellent granite in a rush so that they aren’t discovered in the act isn’t that it’s over drilled. When you hammer it in and there’s still 1/4” sticking out, what’s the plan then? Not enough for a puller to grab onto to break it, not enough clearance for a clean cut with a chisel or any other cutting implement that would also heavily risk damaging the rock

I think using a roto drill would be much quieter than someone hammering for two hours, so I’m guessing he power drilled despite it being against the rules. He could also have a quieting case for the drill.

I would take the first bolt and try to use that to gage the depth of the hole. If the hole wasn’t over drilled, and given many people’s stance they would just hammer it off quickly, I would over tighten the biz out of the wedge to pull as many threads out as possible, then use my cutting implement (probably an oscillating saw) and cut it. The hole now should have as much space as the engagement and hammer then tap in and patch.

With new wedge bolts, I have also had luck just overtighening it till the collar broke off. Either of these approaches take 5 min.

Point being At the very least someone outraged by the hangers could just pull them off.

Steve Williamswrote:

Yeah, take the damn bolts out!

If you meant remove all the bolts:

Easy. Just free solo everything. Then you don't have to worry about how many bolts there are or not.

But, historical challenges should remain for everyone. 

Climbing Snake Dike is not a participation trophy. Certain standards should be met.

T Taylor wrote:  I think one part I’m confused about, is why is it taking so long. I can’t tell at all what bolts are in the picture. “Chopping” a five piece bolt is like a one minute thing. A wedge bolt is maybe more involve but if he over drilled the hole, it’s also only going to take a minute. Only a glue in would really require chopping.

It's a full day to hike in, especially if planning to climb the route - maybe you know.   Perhaps find a like-minded partner to line up openings on calendars, deal with crowds, etc.  I'm impressed this could happen within a week.

Tanner James wrote: I started the thread in the interest of accountability for Erik so the community understands what is happening, not to gauge interest. The bolts are being removed next week. I don’t believe staying silent here is the correct position for me as a relatively established Yosemite climber, I felt like we needed a vocal and outspoken response to this action and while I don’t love the attention of it all, if not me then who?

My question was poorly couched, giving only one reason to start the thread.  I greatly appreciate knowing what is happening in Yosemite, Tanner.  A vocal and outspoken response is right on.   Edit:  in other words, to answer the topic's question, yes - it is worthwhile to have a thread about Snake Dike.  :)

Judging from many of the comments there, I have hope that others would pick this up if it were not you.  That said, thank you for taking the time - I'm sure you like all of us would rather be doing other than this cleaning up after Erik.

Tanner Jameswrote:

I started the thread in the interest of accountability for Erik so the community understands what is happening, not to gauge interest. The bolts are being removed next week. I don’t believe staying silent here is the correct position for me as a relatively established Yosemite climber, I felt like we needed a vocal and outspoken response to this action and while I don’t love the attention of it all, if not me then who?

I certainly appreciate the accountability component as well as just knowing whats happening, so thanks for the original thread. 

Re. the bolts being removed, I love to hear it. 

Erik Sloan did this? Do you have proof? Not that it wouldn't track given his record...

Sam Mwrote:

Erik Sloan did this? Do you have proof? Not that it wouldn't track given his record...

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/203127636/half-domes-snake-dike-is-being-retrobolted-get-involved

Sam Mwrote:

Erik Sloan did this? Do you have proof? Not that it wouldn't track given his record...

… and …

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105836362/snake-dike#Comment-203123752

One fascinating thing is that instagram seems to be very for the retro bolting

Eric Beck, FA, has chimed in:  "Even the Most Begginer Beginner Doesn't Need That Many Bolts".   And Erik Sloan's MP account is deactivated.

Tanner Jameswrote:

I started the thread in the interest of accountability for Erik so the community understands what is happening, not to gauge interest. The bolts are being removed next week. I don’t believe staying silent here is the correct position for me as a relatively established Yosemite climber, I felt like we needed a vocal and outspoken response to this action and while I don’t love the attention of it all, if not me then who?

Thank you for having an open conversation about it Tanner. The biggest regret in all of my climbing is a botched bolt that left an ugly scar. I hope you and whoever else intends on removing them is confident in their abilities to do it beautifully. If we can't honor Becks vision for 4-5 bolts on those pitches, please take time to honor his plea for proper care of the rock we all claim to love.

"He warned any would-be choppers that if they can’t remove Sloan’s additions on pitches two and three cosmetically, they’d better not do it at all. “I’ve seen really ugly scars left after removing bolts,” he told me. “I’ve also seen it done cleanly, and they’ve filled in the hole in a way where you can see it just barely. Oh, boy. For me, this is a really messy topic … If the bolts can’t be removed cosmetically, I’d say they’re okay. Otherwise, they can be left as a monument to whatever Erik’s ideal was.” https://www.climbing.com/news/snake-dike-first-ascensionist-speaks-out-after-new-bolts-appear/

Other current voices in one of the other two threads advocate returning the route to before Sloan’s changes, even if it can’t be done cleanly. If it matters, they are from folks who have climbed the route.

The bolts will be removed cleanly and patched as well as possible. 

God speed homie. Hope it stops there!

(Narrator:  It won't.)

Sam Mwrote:

Erik Sloan did this? Do you have proof? Not that it wouldn't track given his record...

Yeah he posted that he did it and then asked if people would donate to him as a tip.. so yeah pretty sure he did it

Tanner Jameswrote:

The bolts will be removed cleanly and patched as well as possible. 

Woot Woot!

CHOP CHOP! CHOP CHOP! CHOP CHOP! -----> EVERRRRYYYYYBOOOOODAYYYY!

Fuck no death is coming for us all, act accordingly..

Tanner Jameswrote:

The bolts will be removed cleanly and patched as well as possible. 

Again, Thank you!!!

T Taylorwrote: I think using a roto drill would be much quieter than someone hammering for two hours, so I’m guessing he power drilled despite it being against the rules. He could also have a quieting case for the drill.

this is well known. He once jogged past me with no pack, disappeared around the corner, then 2-3min later appeared w/ a pack on his back, w/ the drill handle sticking out of the pack (not even covered w/ a towel, I was honestly impressed by the brazenness of it all). It was set to rain that night, hence why he was grabbing his stashed gear (this was on top of swan slab w/ my 11yr old). 

I then had to yell at him when he trundled rocks from the wall up above the SS walkoff - as he had gone up the gully to another spot he was bolting/cleaning - while  I was helping my wife and daughter down the slick spots on the SS walkoff into the gully (where his trundled rocks were bouncing down). 

I would take the first bolt and try to use that to gage the depth of the hole. If the hole wasn’t over drilled, and given many people’s stance they would just hammer it off quickly, I would over tighten the biz out of the wedge to pull as many threads out as possible, then use my cutting implement (probably an oscillating saw) and cut it. The hole now should have as much space as the engagement and hammer then tap in and patch.

I assume you're just talking out loud but my understanding is it's not just power drills but rather power tools that are expressly prohibited in Yosemite (and many other places). I could be totally wrong here but seems that using that method would put us on ES' moral level, or at least closer than I'd like.

T Taylorwrote:

Not trying to flame anyone, I just wonder if everyone coming into the thread has a predetermined conclusion. If people won’t change their opinion is it even a discussion? What’s the point? Is it to virtue signal?

Edit: I’m not saying the other thread is pointless

I think the obvious thing is that Erik needs to go to prison forever. We can all agree on that.