Half Dome's Snake Dike is being retrobolted - get involved!

Patrick O'Hare wrote:

By my count, the anti-retrobolt folks outnumber the pro-retrobolt crowd 7:1.

You are getting a selection bias here. The Facebook groups where this same debate is happening it's very much the anti-retrobolters that are outnumbered there.

I don't think MP is very representative of all of climbing, but I do think it represents what is sometimes called "the core climbing scene" better than the FB groups. 

Aren’t there already enough well protected beginner climbs in the valley? I don’t see why this route should need more than 4-5 bolts max. 

John Tuttle wrote:

Should we put up a Telepherique from the Valley Floor to the summit of Half Dome for them?

This was a serious proposal at some time in the mid/late 80's

No.  Not a single bolt needs to be added to this route.

Ricky Harline wrote:

You are getting a selection bias here. The Facebook groups where this same debate is happening it's very much the anti-retrobolters that are outnumbered there.

I don't think MP is very representative of all of climbing, but I do think it represents what is sometimes called "the core climbing scene" better than the FB groups. 

Patrick's ratio (7:1) seems high on MP's anti-retrobolt folks, but that is just intuition on my part.  

I was curious about FB and went through the top-level comments on FB's Climbing Magazine's ' "Add Some More Bolts" Says Snake Dike First Ascensionist '.  My tally, admittedly involves some interpretation:

46 anti-retrobolt

27 retrobolt

What a self aggrandizing, wanna be, desperate POS Sloan is.   

I wonder how many of the pro-retrobolt people have actually climbed the route?  IMO you don't get a vote if you haven't actually climbed the route.  Because how can you make an informed opinion about a route if you haven't actually climbed it?  It is a really easy route that almost anybody can do if they practice on other Valley slab climbs of equal or slightly harder grade.  

When I recently climbed this route in a party of three, one climber in our group was adamant about not leading anything because he was scared of the run-outs.  I understood his position because he grew up as a sport climber and usually has me lead anything remotely scary anyway.  So I told him I would lead all of Snake Dike, no problem.  Well, at the top of the 3rd pitch belay he decided that he wanted to lead pitch 4.  And so he did.  And he was stoked for overcoming his fear and doing it. And then he led pitch 6 and 8!

So for those folks who want more bolts on Snake Dike, sorry, that isn't going to happen.  But the upside is the route awaits to gift you the joy of discovery, the same joy that 20,000 others have experienced before you- it will bring a smile to your face when you glide up the dike... hand holds, foot holds, sun, wind, sky, beauty.  If you are apprehensive, like my sport climbing buddy, just go with someone who is willing to lead the whole thing.  Then maybe lead a pitch or three when you feel ready.  And you will feel ready.  

Retrobolting is bad for the following reasons:

• Hurt feelings: No one will care about old wizards and their talk about scary pre-retrobolt sends on a 5.7
• Fewer injuries: YOSAR won't be able to pick up bodies off this beginner route anymore (lame)
• Gatekeeping: only people who can afford lots of expensive cams should be able to climb in yosemite.
• Boomers: the route was sent by boomers, so they own the rock (like everything else), and they say no. We have to listen to our elders. They know what's good for us
• Totems: tweakers who talk about the perfect slot for their .5 cam will have no one listening to them (sad)

Bruh... Not one of your points has ANY connection with anything that's going on here.

Sloan...when your ethics are so shitty they name a toilet after you...

Yeah, Sloan is so lame for not following the arbitrary rules of old people (they made the world better for us). Be a good boy Sloan. Follow the rules! Moar AI photos!

I strongly support Erik Sloan’s bolting efforts on Snake Dike.

The argument that “runout and mental pressure are part of the route” should not be used to force unnecessary risk onto everyone else. Your extraordinary experience should not require sacrificing other climbers’ safety. That is like forcing your religious doctrine onto people who do not share your faith.

If you want the original runout experience, you are completely free to skip any bolt you want. Nobody is taking that choice away from you. But removing or opposing protection that could prevent serious injury or death takes that choice away from others.

More bolts give climbers options. They do not force anyone to clip them.

No one is forced to climb any climb. You can be as mild as you wish because there are other routes.

If safety and less pressure on YOSAR is a goal then taking down the cables is the key. Significant numbers of deaths and rescues have occurred on the easier route.

Adam Byra wrote:

Retrobolting is bad for the following reasons:

• Hurt feelings: No one will care about old wizards and their talk about scary pre-retrobolt sends on a 5.7
• Fewer injuries: YOSAR won't be able to pick up bodies off this beginner route anymore (lame)
• Gatekeeping: only people who can afford lots of expensive cams should be able to climb in yosemite.
• Boomers: the route was sent by boomers, so they own the rock (like everything else), and they say no. We have to listen to our elders. They know what's good for us
• Totems: tweakers who talk about the perfect slot for their .5 cam will have no one listening to them (sad)

Can you name a single "body" recovered from the base of Snake Dike? And your advocating for bolting Yosemite cracks so you don't have to own a rack? Am I reading that right?

If someone had added only 5 more bolts total to the entire route, and not posted on MP, this would be an entirely different conversation. Sigh…

Are there any photos? 

There's a photo in the other thread. Of a buttonhead installed by Erik.  Presumably buttonheads so a yabr can't pull them? Correct me if that's incorrect.

Only someone who doesn't give a shit about the grandeur of this stone would install bolts that couldn't be pulled on a route they knew the community would immediately rid of the additions. He gets to lie to himself and believe it's someone else who desecrated the stone. All of this is just as weak as it gets. What a small man.

Tanner James wrote:

Can you name a single "body" recovered from the base of Snake Dike? And your advocating for bolting Yosemite cracks so you don't have to own a rack? Am I reading that right?

No, I'm saying the opposite. There are already too many people climbing in Yosemite, adding bolts would make it way more crowded/safe/convenient for others. As a fellow boomer, I want to limit access and convenience for people that come after me, and like all other boomers I feel that I own the place (because I was there first (obviously the natives don't count)), and I'm afraid of change in general.

Adam Byra = Sloan clone

Adam Byra wrote:

No, I'm saying the opposite. There are already too many people climbing in Yosemite, adding bolts would make it way more crowded/safe/convenient for others. As a fellow boomer, I want to limit access and convenience for people that come after me, and like all other boomers I feel that I own the place (because I was there first (obviously the natives don't count)), and I'm afraid of change in general.

Again - Are your advocating for bolting Yosemite cracks so you don't have to own a rack? Am I reading that right?

Adam Byra wrote:

Retrobolting is bad for the following reasons:

• Hurt feelings: No one will care about old wizards and their talk about scary pre-retrobolt sends on a 5.7
• Fewer injuries: YOSAR won't be able to pick up bodies off this beginner route anymore (lame)
• Gatekeeping: only people who can afford lots of expensive cams should be able to climb in yosemite.
• Boomers: the route was sent by boomers, so they own the rock (like everything else), and they say no. We have to listen to our elders. They know what's good for us
• Totems: tweakers who talk about the perfect slot for their .5 cam will have no one listening to them (sad)

Even Chat GBT can’t write a coherent argument to fortify your opinion. Clearly!