Murder-Suicide - the Case Against Simul-rappelling

I thought this might be of interest to US climbers (I would post it all as a forum post, but it's too long).

https://andykirkpatrick.substack.com/p/murder-suicide-the-case-against-simul

Well written!!  And funny as hell, which helped drive home the big points.

Make apes happy, make clicky.

Simul rapping is faster, but only if you don't care about closing your systems. Hell, it's arguably the fastest way to your body to the ground if that's literally your only goal. 

I was guiding a guy who really didn't need guiding the other day. He wanted to get more efficient overall. I showed him the beauty of pre-rigged raps and he loved it. Everyone has a role, second person can start rapping immediately once the first unweights, rope gets threaded while second person raps, only need one knot in the system, you can rig the other person's rappel while they finish pulling the rope, everyone gets a double check, one person could rap with an ABD if they want, ascending is easy since the rope is blocked, win-win-win-win-win. 

I'm constantly confused why simul-rapping is even considered. 

I may be in the minority here, but I felt like this was a ridiculous article. Comparing simul rapping to having sex with farm animals? Come on man. Talk about the attention economy.

Any climbing system utilized incorrectly can and probably has resulted in death. The main accident referenced in the write up (on Lunatic Fringe) features the two climbers (likely) making several mistakes. No back ups, one on an ATC, sounds like one possibly unweighting the rope, etc. I don’t think the system itself was the problem. 

The biner-block method can be just as dangerous when used incorrectly. There was an accident semi-recently near me when someone died because they accidentally clipped their device onto the same end of the rope the biner block was on. Maybe someone remembers more details?

Lynn Hill famously didn’t finish her knot and had her accident. Others have died from this mistake as well. Does this mean the figure 8 is unsafe? I used to climb with a German guy who tied in on a single bowline - his argument being if you don’t finish the knot as soon as you leave the ground your rope will fall off and you’ll know.

I guess I just feel like demonizing simul-rapping isn’t really the answer to the accidents mentioned in the write up. The more important takeaway to me is be cognizant, utilize your systems correctly, keep your head on a swivel, don’t get complacent, etc. 

I don’t think many people are simul rapping off single point anchors. At least in my experience I normally see and utilize it when descending a route with bolted rappels. 

I’d also be interested in data pointing to there being more simul-rapping accidents than regular rappelling or lowering accidents. (Probably impossible data since the number of climbers utilizing these 3 methods of descent will vary drastically). Descending is often the most dangerous part of the day - whether cleaning a sport anchor, simul rappelling, or regular rappelling. Be safe and don’t get complacent regardless of the method used.

I will concede that simul-rapping does expose two climbers to danger at once as opposed to just one. But I’m just not convinced there’s that many people dropping dead from the act of simul rapping. Maybe I’m wrong? 

Todd Rwrote:

I will concede that simul-rapping does expose two climbers to danger at once as opposed to just one. But I’m just not convinced there’s that many people dropping dead from the act of simul rapping. Maybe I’m wrong? 

I think Andy purposely went off the deep end for the entertainment and disgust reaction. Hyperbolic is kinda his style. 

Risk is inherent in climbing. But we should be mindful about the risk we choose to take. There should be some benefit. If a risk must be taken there should be no reasonable alternatives. Your point about exposing two people to risk at once is a huge factor for me to avoid SR. Perhaps there are a larger number of descending accidents that don't involve SR (likely because SR isn't a primary descent method). But an incident involving two injured people is much more complicated than one where you can concentrate your efforts. If only one person gets hurt, there's a chance the other person can help. At the very least, you've avoided creating a second victim. 

Thanks for sharing.
Critique time. I'm not gonna hit on a ton cause I'm sure others will point out more....

you say this in the when its "okay" to simul:

• Both climbers are connected to the end of their ropes (a knotted end is not good enough, as knots can come apart in a high-impact fall).

Thats such a bad point. This isn't unique to a simul rap. Set the knot and have enough tail. You're shooting safety in the foot with that comment. Connecing the rope to oneself can cause and absolute pig-tailed mess if the end can't spin. What examples of unplanned knots dissassemblies during a rappel can you cite? More of an argument to use a 3rd hand....

onward.
The accidents you name in article were from a lack of knots in the end of the rope, not from the act of simul rappelling. Knots would have almost certainly "saved" those individuals. Think of Balin or the oodles of other mishaps.... Time and time again, lack of stopper knots have led to deaths not the method of the rap.

In general I find the title to be incredibly click-baity. I do agree with some of the points made, on some judgments to make before simul rapping. However the general tone is just not hitting the mark for me. Simul rapping is a skill, just like LRS, going about it haphazardly is dangerous. As the title suggests, you do not like it, which drives the tone of the article. I don't believe the data would back that stance about simul rappeling being any,more dangerous than rappelling in general. Lack of knots is the #1 cause of accidents as far as I know in that facet of climbing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In your conclusion you say:

• Simul rapping deserves far more consideration than it is given when viewed as some cool, rock-star method of descent.

Are you projecting? I have never heard someone talk about how cool it is, or how they feel like a rock star. First time I used it (outside of practicing for the skills) was because of scared begginer, and this helped them immensly to have someone more experienced with them.

That article screams sensationalism to me more than anything. There is time and place for simul rappelling, but it feels like personal disdain more than based in reality.
This is an opinion piece, not a technical article, so I undertsand the lack objectivity.

Appreciate your contributions to the climbing community, despite not agreeing with this offering.

Here is me looking like a fuckin' super cool rockstar with my partner in Cajon Del Maipo ;)

*Groan*
Simul rapping is a tool in the quiver. Obviously you need to know what the hell you’re doing and your partner should too.

This article appears to have started as a rant that got drafted and chopped into various tangents with a lot of references to the author’s book.  The author claims expertise but fails to organize his argument in a logical progression.  Further, while ostensibly “teaching” inexperienced climbers, this piece offers up a variety of highly technical and risky techniques (such as single piece anchor rappels!) as safe and reasonable.  

The article is a mess and in a weak way criticizes the exact thing it’s doing: giving inexperienced climbers too much and incomplete information.  Maybe a few gumbies lives will be saved from a simulrap accident,  but they’ll probably die from false confidence on a single piece rappel.  

Andy Kirkpatrick, edit more, spray less.

Adam Flemingwrote:

Simul rapping is faster, but only if you don't care about closing your systems. Hell, it's arguably the fastest way to your body to the ground if that's literally your only goal. 

I was guiding a guy who really didn't need guiding the other day. He wanted to get more efficient overall. I showed him the beauty of pre-rigged raps and he loved it. Everyone has a role, second person can start rapping immediately once the first unweights, rope gets threaded while second person raps, only need one knot in the system, you can rig the other person's rappel while they finish pulling the rope, everyone gets a double check, one person could rap with an ABD if they want, ascending is easy since the rope is blocked, win-win-win-win-win. 

I'm constantly confused why simul-rapping is even considered. 

The only time I use it is when there's some loose rock that could be accidentally knocked down onto your partner. Knots in ends and clip a long sling between you and your partner.. 

Tone Loc wrote:

I would respectfully suggest that there are way safer alternatives here, especially for a beginnner. A stacked or belayed rap are two. Or simply lowering them and practicing raps in a different, low consequence place. Or using a separate system to rap down together but on separate ropes. If a beginner is so nervous that they need you next to them the whole time, this is probably not the scenario they should be getting their wet with it. The risk of the beginner losing control, you not being able to back them up, and sending you both downward uncontrolled seems unreasonable to me.

I’ve guided folks through a simul rappel many times with very positive results.  I wouldn’t recommend it as a first or second rappel lesson but plenty of people need more emotional support after they already have the technical skills, especially when confronting the exposure of multipitch rappels.  Obviously it requires all the traditional safeguards of a simul rappel: SERENE anchor, clear terrain, balanced rope lengths, stopper knots, third hand, connected climbers, leader is highly experienced.  

I’m not saying it’s the way to teach people rappels, but it has a place.

Mr Rogerswrote:

In your conclusion you say:

• Simul rapping deserves far more consideration than it is given when viewed as some cool, rock-star method of descent.

Are you projecting? I have never heard someone talk about how cool it is, or how they feel like a rock star.

No offense to you Mr. Rogers, but that's exactly how I first heard about simul rapping. People who talked about it said it was this cool, advanced technique that was so much faster and all the badass climbers used it.

I am not a fan of simul rapping, it just doesn't balance out with my personal risk/reward calculations (which is not to say I'm a safety but, I do plenty of unsafe things willingly)

Calebwrote:

*Groan*

Not to be defensive, but once upon a time, when we had a functional climbing media, I'd have pitched this to Climber or R&I, or a UK mag, and got paid 1 cent a word, plus payment for images and diagrams, and so, I could invest a day, maybe more, on an article like this, and it would then have pass into the hands of an editor, maybe two, and a graphic designer, and you'd end up with something solid (hopefully). 

But seeing as it's 2026, and everything is free and mostly advertorial, cut-and-paste, or synthetic, so almost everything has the quality and care of a subpar Las Vegas buffet, what do you expect? I might have 5000+ Substack subscribers, but less than 200 paid subscribers, and seeing as I generally post an article a week, it would be stupid to invest more than an hour or two into an article like this, or for you to expect me, or other writers, to produce New Yorker quality writing for a few dollars plus change (if you do pay me $5 a month, I do applogise, and will try harder). 

I know, I should have just got ChatGPT to write this, and create the diagrams, etc, as I'm sure you'd find that more acceptable, like a Big Mac and fries, but personally, I'm becoming a fan of shitness and imperfection, as at least it shows it was written by a human.

You're welcome.

Todd Rwrote:

I may be in the minority here, but I felt like this was a ridiculous article. Comparing simul rapping to having sex with farm animals? Come on man. Talk about the attention economy.

I know, I should have written something more libertarian, like:

Every person owns their own life. Because you bear the consequences of your decisions, you should also have the right to make them. Freedom means allowing people to choose for themselves, even when those choices are unwise, unpopular, or risky. Once others are given the power to decide what is best for you, they cease to treat you as an autonomous adult and instead treat you as a child. The role of a free society is not to ensure that everyone makes good decisions, but to ensure that individuals are free to make their own decisions, provided they do not violate the rights of others. So if you want to simul-rap, just do it.

But, being a Brit, having sex with sheep popped into my head first.

Tone Loc wrote:

I would respectfully suggest that there are way safer alternatives here, especially for a beginnner. A stacked or belayed rap are two. Or simply lowering them and practicing raps in a different, low consequence place. Or using a separate system to rap down together but on separate ropes. If a beginner is so nervous that they need you next to them the whole time, this is probably not the scenario they should be getting their wet with it. The risk of the beginner losing control, you not being able to back them up, and sending you both downward uncontrolled seems unreasonable to me.

I offered options. Including just lowering them.
The rap was off bolts. It went great. They got to ask questions and have a lovely learning/teaching moment.
There is no one right solution. That was the one chosen that day with great success.

To be quite clear, my go to is not to simul rappel, but simul rappelling is a fantastic option to have.

Agreed. I don't care for the simul-rap. An necessarily complicated way to rap and unlikely to be the best option in most circumstances. 

Simulrapping adds risks to the rappelling process, full stop.  As usual in climbing, there are times when adding some risk in one category actually makes things safer overall.  In the case of simul rapping, those occasions are pretty rare.  Descending relatively short climbs in decent weather is not one of the moments demanding simul rapping. I'd argue that coaching a terrified beginner down a rap is a poor substitute for teaching them to rappel competently under controlled circumstances. 

So it is of very limited use in special circumstances.  One occasion I think might apply, perhaps paradoxically because of the risks, is descending in bad conditions at night.  Having both people together and able to communicate easily and both engaged in spotting or deciding on the next anchor seems better than leaving one person above at the anchor in the dark and wind with no idea what is going on below.  In any case, this is not an everyday application and requires both party members to be experienced and fully attentive.

I think there is an unfortunate "Patagonia storm effect" that motivates climbers to treat every situation using techniques developed and adapted for dire conditions. An overemphasis on speed, superheated by the publicized feats of a few devotees, and the scorn heaped on parties that are perhaps just a touch slower create social pressures that make it more difficult to make objective risk decisions.

I think Andy's piece is on-target and delightfully over the top, unlike, for example, the mundane and forgettable prose just above. Punching through an accumulation of "conventional wisdom" requires a bit of hyperbole, and he's delivered that in spades.

Andy, maybe you just don't know what you're doing, and some instruction from an experienced person would change your perspective?

Now we just need to find a Scotsman to hold the sheep.

I find simulrapping a very good option in some, though far than most, cases.  Lots more social, to start with--the flow of conversation need not cease.  Faster, which is great when doing a long descent.  Safe enough with a competent partner.  I'd hate to do it to a space station though--better far to have a ledge to land on.  On familiar territory, with a strong, competent partner and the Deli calling, there's absolutely no reason not to.

But Andy--just because print media is mostly dead doesn't mean you should lower your writing standards.  Write less, but better, if you must.  My best work (I'm told, and I tend to agree), is not what the mags published, but what I put in my blog.  AI will never, ever, be as good as a good writer, because it's copying without creating, and creativity's infinite variety has much to express through the curious and well-trained mind.

HAHAHA the fear mongering about simulrapping is ridiculous considering it's more efficient and safer in most situations. Assuming the anchor is bomber simulrapping is more efficient and safer than traditional rapping. Efficient - it's obviously faster; should be no debate about that. Safer: you're rapping together side by side so there's limited to no risk of dropping rocks or gear on one another. Falling rock/ice/gear is a major cause of accidents in climbing. Also, simulrapping allows for two sets of eyes together looking for the next rap station. I'm sure we've all been in situations where the next rap station is tough to find/see or you miss it entirely and have to jug back up to it. Simulrapping also requires both climbers to double check each other inherently within the process of setting it up. Also, the example accidents you cite would have happened had the parties been traditional rapping as well. So, you're being disingenuous using them as examples against simulrapping. I almost bought your book too, hahaha. 

Tone Loc wrote:

Why did they/you like it on those occasions? (I get the potential rockfall situation mentioned above, good point.)

Have you ever pre-rigged someone, rapped to the next anchor and then they refuse to rappel? It’s typically with people that need a lot of emotional support or have a lot of self doubt.  Most are capable of working through the systems but are afraid of being left alone or not having oversight.  Some clients literally have to be talked off a ledge.  Staying close becomes the most practical way to keep them moving.  

To Andy Kirkpatrick: This piece needed major structural edits and transition work.  You published a draft.  How do you expect this will result in more people paying for your work?  

It truly is a shame that climbing writing has very few major outlets left.  Perhaps creating that venue is more important (and lucrative) than slamming out half baked copy to hook a few views.

I wonder how big the speed advantage really is.  Certainly, simul rapping is not twice as fast, since most of the time rapping is spent setting things up, tossing the ropes, etc, and that doesn't change, or if it does, extra time is spent setting up for the simul rap.  Let's say simulrappers descend at 2 ft/sec and ordinary rappers, who don't have to be quite as cautious, descend at 3 ft/sec. (I have no idea what the real rates are.)  A long rap with a doubled 60 m rope is 100 feet.  So your simulrappers take  50 sec to descend, and your conventional rappers take 33.3 sec each to descend, so simulrapping saved the party 16.6  seconds.  Over 20 rappels, that's 5.5 minutes; let's call it 6 minutes.  If a Patagonian storm is about to hit, or you are rapping a long dangerous route exposed to ice or rock fall or avalanches, then an extra six minutes in the bowling alley looks bad. But if you are in the sun on a nice eight-pitch wall at Red Rocks or a smaller route on almost any crag, then the time saved is a nothingburger.

There might be even less time advantage if the conventionally rapping party does some efficiency tricks of their own.  If the party sets up stacked rappels or uses a stone knot, then the first person down can tie a knot in just one of the ropes. When that person gets to the next station, they can untie the knot, thread their end through the anchor, and retie the knot.  When the second person arrives, the party pulls the already-threaded ropes, and the rappel is ready to go.  Now, if simulrapping, both ropes must have knots in their ends.  The pre-threading can't be done, but that's not much of a time loss.  A bigger time loss is that the strand that falls free from the rap anchor above has to be pulled up, knotted, and re-tossed.  That by itself probably eats up all the simulrapping time advantage.

For all but some extreme circumstances, and maybe not even then, I think the time advantage of simulrapping might be more of an illusion than a bankable reality.  If so, then a rational decision to simulrap would have to be based on some other consideration (I gave an example in my previous comment).

One such situation, now mentioned twice in the context of guiding, is that the client is so frightened of rappelling that the assurance of a simul rappel is the only way to get them down.  I think the real problem here is a failure to take the time and effort to teach enough about rappelling that the beginner doesn't freeze at the prospect.  I can't speak for any guides, but I have fairly regularly seen experienced climbers out with novices "teaching" them to rappel for the very first time at the top of a route.  Yikes.  In this case, I think the simul rappel is a "solution" to a problem that should have been solved in a different way.