New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #42

Burn pile today - mostly consisting of the small stuff from the cedar that fell over with that last big snow. Add in all the other miscellaneous debris that dropped then and there's even a "feeder" pile. Glad we had enough rain to get this done before next winter!

No books, Brad?

Donald is VERY DISAPPOINTED in you.

Lori Milaswrote:

It is beautiful, dragons. I think you’d love it. It’s kind of a wonderland back there with its own unique plants and trees.  Come stay with us and we can go explore!  

Thanks Lori, that is very kind of you! One day, I hope!

Jay Goodwinwrote:

No books, Brad?

Donald is VERY DISAPPOINTED in you.

Dammit Jay, I almost spit out my morning coffee.

Kris,

Read your post about Liquid Sky, which was named after the 1982 cult Film of the same name. Oddly enough, today's paper had this obituary for Slava Tsukerman, the Director. 

Cherokee I love your post.  I think my two favorite climbs I've ever put up are a sport route that i put a lot of time, thought, and effort into, and a trad route in the middle of nowhere that i left the way i found it aside from a sling on a tree at the top, for someone else to have the same experience i did (it may well never be repeated, though it's a decent line, due to access issues).

There is a tremendous amount to be said for both approaches, and in my opinion the rock itself suggests which is appropriate more often than not.

I just finished bottling all my syrup for the season today. Came out to a bit over seven gallons. That's pretty damn good for seventeen taps, especially given that it was a short season because of the cold winter.

Here's a bottle from each of my five batches this season, in order of production from left (golden/delicate) to right (dark/robust): 

GO

Randywrote:

I don't believe either one of these statements is true. 

The climbs are still there, and with a very few exceptions, people are still climbing them... as long as fixed hardware is upgraded and/or replaced... which a few dedicated climbers are actually undertaking.

Many people putting up routes in the past were out trying to spy classic lines and nab them before someone else did. We wanted them to become classics (even if often they were not).  Once the route was established we absolutely wanted others to climb it and tell us how great it was (even if it wasn't). If the routes were good, we absolutely wanted to (and did) repeat them. While this was not true for everyone establishing routes, it was the prevailing attitude. 

Since bolts were put up on the lead with hand drills, bolts were placed on natural stances -- where you could let go with two hands. This often meant placing bolts sparingly and where actually needed to protect hard moves. As Guy mentioned, the concept of thinking out placements of bolts and falls is much more a sport climbing ethic -- routes that are generally not amenable to lead bolting due to steepness of the rock or lack of stances.

And, as others have pointed out, if you started climbing in the last couple decades, often learning climbing in a gym and transitioning to sport climbing, your expectations about protection and risk might be very different -- and only one point of view.

There were also bolts placed on aid to pass a section not to protect future free climbing. When I started climbing a bolt was the least reliable thing that you could clip into many of which were homemade and none were bigger than 1/4", usually very shallow. I remember clipping into more than one that was a piece of aluminum tubing with a nail driven into it, likely 30 or 40 years old, talk about galvanic corrosion! A friend of mine fell pulling out 3 bolts and hit the ground. Fortunately he was uninjured.

Gabe, you maDe seven gallons of syrup off of 17 taps? That’s impressive   We usually average around half a gallon per tap. We are definitely going to be short of that this season. Close to two thousand gallons of syrup off of 5,00 taps. Better than ice climbing 🤪

Victor Creazziwrote:

When I started climbing a bolt was the least reliable thing that you could clip into many of which were homemade and none were bigger than 1/4", usually very shallow. 

 Case in point: taken at my local crag yesterday:

So, for those of you who put bolts in, bitd? What do you anticipate for bolt replacement? Will that just be whatever, whenever, by anyone who thinks they know what they are doing? Should funky homemade stuff exempt from an okay from who ever put it in?

I'm assuming this will be a part of ASCAs mission, maybe already is.

Trad, well, for myself, that has also included routes with essentially no protection at all. Or maybe a sparse bit of gear, that is next to useless. That's when I've been happy to tag along with the truly good climbers, lol!

But?

When I am on top rope, I then have access to everything in reach, which often includes "trad" routes adjacent. 

I must say, those routes are often looking pretty neglected, and not climbed much, if at all. Filling in with plants, which I detour past. There's still gear routes that are popular .....but others got preempted by bolts, even without the actual line being bolted. Just an observation. Anchors or no anchors, makes a big difference, too. Old school walkoffs, vs climb and get lowered? That changed the perception of a lot of places, and how often anyone climbed anything at all there.

Helen

Edit to add, one of my first climbing experiences was a bigass free hanging rappel from the seldom visited side of our local cliffs.

Off of sagebrush anchors. Betcha not many have that in their roster!

Old lady Hwrote:

Off of sagebrush anchors. Betcha not many have that in their roster!

A couple of my friends had just finished a trad route in Hueco Tanks when one of them turned around to see that the one called The Droid had set a rappel up on a clump of bushes.  When questioned, The Droid said “It would take a month of Sundays to pull that clump of bushes out.”  He was such a bad downclimber that we then used the tactic of letting him rappel to the ground with all the gear, and then tossing the rope off after him.

He is heading out to Arizona with me in a week and a half.   All 1/2 inch stainless bolt anchors so hopefully no shrubs will be involved!

Old lady Hwrote:

So, for those of you who put bolts in, bitd? What do you anticipate for bolt replacement? Will that just be whatever, whenever, by anyone who thinks they know what they are doing? Should funky homemade stuff exempt from an okay from who ever put it in?

I'm assuming this will be a part of ASCAs mission, maybe already is.

Interesting question.  Especially in light of the recent Kalymnos accident/fatality.

I guess I'm fortunate that at least some of the older hardware I put in has been popped out.  The old button head stuff from hand drilling.  Was never that comfy with 1/4" so at least bumped up to 5/16.  I dimly recall...

In the City/Castle, there's a pretty good effort for sniffing out and replacing aging hardware.  The CRAG folk.  In other areas, been fairly well managed by the LCO's.  Here in Utar in the SLC area, the SLCA has a pretty robust crew and plan and really gets after it.  And...there's good resources for it (ASCA) as well as Petzl hosting a bolting thing every year now it seems to share best practices.  Well funded by the local climbing community.

Glad to have switched to all stainless quite a few years ago.  There's still some older plated stuff out there but some has been replaced.  Maybe most.  I had a few routes upgraded in the Uintas a couple years ago and got a look at the hardware, which, still looked pretty good to me.  But...they're popular routes so nice to not worry.

Fortunate to a have a few folks "who think they know what they are doing."  Ha ha.  As much as some of us knew when we placed the fixed hardware in the first place.  Or way more.

It'd be pretty sobering to have someone have a train wreck, and, maybe even perish, on a route that you established.  And even if remotely related to aging or failed fixed hardware...whew.  Tough sledding.  I mean...caveat emptor...but...still.  Would tend to be a pretty big bummer.  Maybe a main part of the reason folks try to keep current for best practices and hardware.

I left for a hike this morning to 'somewhere else' from my regular trail. This place is quiet, hidden, solitary... I've stopped wondering 'where are the climbers'? But am still wondering will I be able to come back here to climb again?

10 am still total shade and actually cold.  

I've had a fantasy I've never shared... what would it be like if I could climb right next to Kris (Solem), like RIGHT next to him, footstep for footstep.  I think I might actually be able to climb a route of his, if he slowed down, and no one heckled.  Here's the route on this wall I would toggle along with him:

This is a great place to daydream.  And really, how can you NOT acknowledge the climbers who have been here and climbed here in the past.  

-----

So, speaking of daydreaming... my interest in octopuses was only that, an interest (I thought).  Then I thought, hmmm, I wonder if it's possible to have an octopus for a pet.  Thinking about the cruelty of pulling such an intelligent and sensitive animal out of the ocean, no.  But then, thinking further, what about those that have already been captured, sitting in buckets in Asian grocery stores... or that have been already caught and need adoption?  

Well, many weeks/hours of research later... maybe this could be a reality. (Can't climb with Kris, but could own an octopus   ).  It's a big deal... setting up an aquarium, not only lots of cash, but it has to 'mature' for 3 months, running fully, before you can add your octopus to the water.  I understand they are little escape artists, so lots of protections there.  

And here's the heartache, even before it begins:  they only live for about a year.  Maybe a little longer, but you don't know how old they are when you get them.  It's not easy to 'age' an octopus.  So I would know going in that I will have bonded with this creature, grown to love him/her, and will lose him quickly. I'm already sad. 

There's lots of advice to take over the next few months, lots of people to talk to.  In the meantime, this week Tony and I will start looking at aquariums.  If we set one up this month, it would be July before we could bring home an octopus.  Starting to feel like setting up a nursery, anticipating the arrival of a little one.  

Lent has been incredibly wonderful this year... even without attending church one time.  Tomorrow, Easter.  Happy Easter everyone! 

  

Get a Seychelles tortoise. NPR story lately, a big guy is closing in on 200 years old.

Old lady Hwrote:

Get a Seychelles tortoise. NPR story lately, a big guy is closing in on 200 years old.

Tortoise are also extremely resistant to radiation and rarely develop cancer. A really interesting creature. 

Springtime is Beautiful!

Finally talked Isa into going ice climbing. Fist time this year and 2nd climb of the season..  The skiing has been too good for her to bother with neanderthal ice climbing. She had a blast..  And we took Kermit for her first spin of the  vani season. 

climbing was fantastic

this climb is called Parasol Gully because of the way the  wind forms big umbrellas. 

the hike across to Table rock was arduous. Boot pack was just soft enough to  let you fall through every 5th step... 

 

Damn, Nick, ICE!?

It was 86 degrees at Pinnacles today (the season here is definitely coming to an end).

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Jan, my main climbing partner is facing a knee replacement. He was hoping to make it to -6 months to retirement but feels he isn't going to last that long. He's also afraid of the possible outcomes. And short word of wisdom I can pass along, given your experience?

Find the best doc you can.  If you are weak get in as good a shape (legs) as you can before surgery.  If you are in good shape then just stay as active as you can until surgery.  I checked into the hospital at 5am for both of my surgeries.  I was walking out at 1pm on the first one and 11:30am on the second one.  They put enough nerve block in you that the first day or two isn't bad.  But don't do shit cause day 3, 4 and 5 are gonna really suck.  By about day 7 things are settling down and getting much more reasonable.  Don't worry about doing anything until those better days.  Then plan on doing your exercises 2 or 3 times a day.  And the stretching is gonna hurt but it is really rewarding to get your range of motion back during the next couple weeks.  I would say plan on 3 weeks out of work if you have a desk job, more if you are on your feet at work.  Icing and elevating your leg is the key to survival.  At 3 months you start to feel good about what you just went thru.  The hardest thing is that there are gonna be some really horrible days, sometimes with no provocation, but usually it is PT that crushes you.  Do it anyway.  Don't be afraid to take you pain meds but make sure the opiates don't get your system too backed up.  Fruits, veggies and MiraLAX are your friends.  Tell him 'good luck' and he should hope he only ever needs one fixed cause it is really hard to psyche up to get the second one done after what you already went thru.

J Westgatewrote:

Gabe, you maDe seven gallons of syrup off of 17 taps? That’s impressive   We usually average around half a gallon per tap. We are definitely going to be short of that this season. Close to two thousand gallons of syrup off of 5,00 taps. Better than ice climbing 🤪

Yeah, thanks! Especially given that I'm all on buckets, no vacuum, not even natural gravity from tubing. 

Wow, half a gallon per tap is awesome, I'm impressed!  My best season ever was 0.58 gallons per tap. I was still getting good sap, but I was beat, just couldn't keep up (I had run out of wood long before, so i was bucking and splitting green wood as i was boiling, it was very stressful). I average 0.28 gallons per tap, which is more manageable.

5k taps, that's a real operation. Me, I'm just poking around in the woods. 

Drove down to NJ and attended a nice Seder hosted by my sister today. Happy Passover to any others who partake. 

GO

Ward Smithwrote:

Good luck with your project Ward