Kong Slyde lanyard for redundant PAS?

I was thinking about picking up a Kong Slyde as a personal anchor system, particularly for anchoring during rappelling, but I wanted to make it redundant so I wasn't tying into a single bolt. What do people think about the approach I've very poorly drawn out below.  It's very similar to what Alpine Savvy presents here, but extending the line past the stopper knot and tying a figure 8 on a bight to clip into the second bolt as a backup. Would the stopper knot in the middle render the system vulnerable given that's typically a weak point? Anyone use a similar setup?

You could do it this way, and it would totally work. The section with the stopper won't even be loaded unless the first bolt fails, which isn't likely. Even then, the stopper knot in the middle isn't going to reduce the strength enough that it'll be a problem unless you do something ridiculous like take a factor 2 on it wearing a heavy haulbag (even then I want to say it would be fine but I haven't done the math). But what I usually do is just connect the bolts with an alpine draw or something, this also leaves a bit more room for the other person who is probably rapping with you to use the anchor.

For redundancy, I just clip a draw between the two bolts.

I run a dbl length nylon sling through first bolt, then clipping with a locker to the second. Meets redundancy for me

The bots are slippin'.....

OP, to revive this dead thread, why not just use a single petzl adjust mechanism, but running it as if you had two mechanisms, girth'd to your belay loop... and the second line (the one you don't actually have an adjust thingy for) is a simple overhand 8 w/ a slidelock or solid gate biner, for the backup. Set up so that the overhand8 segment is long enough to always be loose, though you could always clove it tighter if you felt the need.

I suppose maybe there's a secondary use for the slyde, hence why you want to fold that into service...... I imagine you could do the same (above) w/ the slyde, though perhaps you're trying to minimize spare cord hanging off the front of your harness?

Christian Hesch wrote:

The bots are slippin'.....

OP, to revive this dead thread, why not just use a single petzl adjust mechanism, but running it as if you had two mechanisms, girth'd to your belay loop... and the second line (the one you don't actually have an adjust thingy for) is a simple overhand 8 w/ a slidelock or solid gate biner, for the backup. Set up so that the overhand8 segment is long enough to always be loose, though you could always clove it tighter if you felt the need.

I suppose maybe there's a secondary use for the slyde, hence why you want to fold that into service...... I imagine you could do the same (above) w/ the slyde, though perhaps you're trying to minimize spare cord hanging off the front of your harness?

Interesting, but I'm having a hard time visualizing it.  Do you just mean to tie an overhand 8 at the dangling loose end of the adjust rope to serve as backup?  Or are we girth hitching something besides the girth hitch loop that's sewn into the PAS?

El Duderino wrote:

I was thinking about picking up a Kong Slyde as a personal anchor system, particularly for anchoring during rappelling, but I wanted to make it redundant so I wasn't tying into a single bolt. What do people think about the approach I've very poorly drawn out below.  It's very similar to what Alpine Savvy presents here, but extending the line past the stopper knot and tying a figure 8 on a bight to clip into the second bolt as a backup. Would the stopper knot in the middle render the system vulnerable given that's typically a weak point? Anyone use a similar setup?

This is exactly how I do it with my Petzl widget, minus the stopper in the middle. Works fabulously, no need for the knot inbetween the clip points.

El Duderino wrote:

Interesting, but I'm having a hard time visualizing it.  Do you just mean to tie an overhand 8 at the dangling loose end of the adjust rope to serve as backup?  Or are we girth hitching something besides the girth hitch loop that's sewn into the PAS?

sorry, just looked at your drawing again... there's no loop sewn into the PAS b/c you're using your own cord, not that petzl factory crap... realized you have an 8 on the harness, but you could just have two separate legs, girth them on belay loop at center of the cord (well, slightly off-center), and use one side for the petzl thingy and one side terminates in a tight 8 that has a small solid gate. Side w/ petzl thingy is used for tether/tension/positioning, second leg is used as a backup on the second bolt, arguably negating the need to connect the bolts w/ draw as many suggest (I fuggin hate that).

obviously twenty ways to skin a cat, personally I just run the evolv, but only when I'm going to be in ladders or frenching.

The proposed system would definitely meet the requirements of being redundant, but there are a few reasons why it might not be great and why people prefer other systems:

• Remember that your partner(s) also need to clip into the anchor on a multi-pitch rappel.  At minimum, you'll have 2 lockers on both bolts, which could be quite a cluster.  If you're in a group of 3, it might not be possible to clip everyone in.  Tying a quick and basic anchor and connecting to the masterpoint is much less clutter.
• This requires some extra length on your tether (because it needs to reach the second bolt) and a second locker, which you have to deal with while it's clipped to your harness during the 90% of the time when you're carrying it and not using it.  A shorter, simpler tether with only 1 carabiner is a lot less intrusive.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

The proposed system would definitely meet the requirements of being redundant, but there are a few reasons why it might not be great and why people prefer other systems:

• Remember that your partner(s) also need to clip into the anchor on a multi-pitch rappel.  At minimum, you'll have 2 lockers on both bolts, which could be quite a cluster.  If you're in a group of 3, it might not be possible to clip everyone in.  Tying a quick and basic anchor and connecting to the masterpoint is much less clutter.
• This requires some extra length on your tether (because it needs to reach the second bolt) and a second locker, which you have to deal with while it's clipped to your harness during the 90% of the time when you're carrying it and not using it.  A shorter, simpler tether with only 1 carabiner is a lot less intrusive.

Only one person needs to connect the bolts to make everyone redundant, so it's only 3 biners total between 2 bolts for a party of 2. In fact it's less clutter because your connecting anchor adds extra biners (1 per person plus 2 for connector = 4).

It's an extra 8 inches on the end of your tether, it's not much. Just clip the end to the biner in the adjust widget (oval is nice for that one). It's certainly less weight and clutter than a dedicated anchor or quad, and much more versatile. 

Also the main advantage of this system imo is that it lets you test your weight transfer when rapping without going off, even if the anchor is awkwardly placed. I've watched so many people with a single connector just shrug their shoulders and trust their rap setup because they couldn't properly weight it. Meanwhile I can always unclip my main locker and still be backed up by the biner on the end of the tether.

Big Red wrote:In fact it's less clutter because your connecting anchor adds extra biners (1 per person plus 2 for connector = 4).

I’m not counting anchor carabiners as extra, because those will be on your harness already, since you needed them on the way up.

Also the main advantage of this system imo is that it lets you test your weight transfer when rapping without going off

Why would this make it any easier to test your rap than a single carabiner on a tether?

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I’m not counting anchor carabiners as extra, because those will be on your harness already, since you needed them on the way up.

Why would this make it any easier to test your rap than a single carabiner on a tether?

I meant clutter on the anchor itself is less when you don't need to connect the bolts with a separate draw.

As for the testing, it's the extra length and the fact that your second clip point is horizontal to the first. It's not every anchor where this makes a difference but it's often enough that I notice how much easier it is and miss it when I use a single biner tether. 

To be fair, it's not as huge a step change as going from non adjustable to adjustable tether but it works well for me and the folks that I've introduced it to.