New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

Randywrote:

You should have told him that none of those falls were while rock climbing. Nearly all were in the home.

So, using his "logic," it is likely safer to live on the streets.

 I don't know about you people, but most times that I talk to any one in the health care industry I get the question "How many time have you fallen in the last ,,,?" I always think 'surely I don't count climbing'.  I don't count slips on loose scree either.

Victor Creazziwrote:

 I don't know about you people, but most times that I talk to any one in the health care industry I get the question "How many time have you fallen in the last ,,,?" I always think 'surely I don't count climbing'.  I don't count slips on loose scree either.

What concerns doctors working with 'geriatrics' ( which, as much as we hate to admit it, includes at least most of us) are falls to the ground ( or into objects) that can result in breaking our (generally) more fragile bones--most significantly our hips. Hopefully, when climbing, at all ages, but especially now, we are trying very hard to avoid leader falls that are likely to result in impacts ( obviously bouldering is a different story!!!), and top-rope falls are much less likely to result in any such contacts. So, I agree, that 'routine' climbing falls do not need to be 'reported' to MDs ( unless you find that you are increasingly 'coming off' unexpectedly).
Those 'falls on scree' ( or similar 'rough' terrain) though not uncommon, however, do entail the risks that concern the doctors, so even more important for us to do all that we can to avoid them. Over the last few years I have become increasingly dependent on my hiking poles ( from not using them at all, to almost constantly even on fairly mellow trails over the course of about a year), and felt them to be very beneficial. A couple of years ago I slipped ( pole-less) on a residual early spring patch of ice hidden by leaves ( New England!!!) and it was quite an impact---fortunately just a painful bruise, but lesson learned....!!!!

duncan, Nick, Victor, Alan...  wow. I SO appreciate your weighing in on this.  I know this is no one's favorite topic, but every now and then I hit it again.  You all are spot on.

Apparently senior aging is a potent topic for me, so I'm looking for ways to change the conversation.  I don't see doctors much, but it's a jolt every time I do.  So, this morning in my stack of mail was a monthly magazine from the biggest medical organization in Palm Srings/Palm Desert, Eisenhower Health.  Called "Healthy Living" I thought... now here's a publication that's going to offer some guidance.  

Inside cover:  Alzheimers Community Partner

#2 Article on Cardiovascular Disease

#4  One Man's Journey through Prostate Cancer

#5 Two Surgeries to Cervical Pain Relief

#7 New stents for women's hearts and non-obstructive heart attacks

#8 Innovative Valve Replacement

...ok, this list goes on.  Where's the diet, sleep, exercise and recovery coaching for older active seniors?  

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The problem is, we are also not 40.  Things DO go wrong, we break things, etc.  We may need interventional care more than a younger person. (But also, that much more attention to strength training, etc.)   So, a few years back when I was first climbing I thought I might need some balance training.  I sent my doctor a note, and within two days I was registered for this class!

It's not their fault.  I just think they need some louder voices describing what we really want.  

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On the other hand... I have a good friend who is a marathon runner, in his 70's, excellent health, but on a routine checkup it was discovered that his arteries were nearly 100% blocked.  He was SO healthy that his body had created tiny veins around his heart that were holding him over, but were slowly killing him.  He just returned from Mayo for a deep look at the situation and to decide upon some options.  We need that, too.  

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For me, all of this is so I can go “straight up” when I need to.  (What a glorious rock!) 

Lori Milaswrote:

On the other hand... I have a good friend who is
1) a marathon runner, in his 70's, excellent health
2) his arteries were nearly 100% blocked. 

This statement is apparently a BS.
Both #1 and #2 can't be true at the same time.
It seems that "100%" was a diagnostic error.

My son (who is MD) told me "Dad, keep doing whatever you are doing and just ignore these calcified plaques you see on your CT scans".

The events in Venezuela demonstrate that what was old is now new again. The narco-trafficking/WMD claims were every bit the universally-understood fig leaf for the underlying motivation here- oil. Venezuela’s govt is far from an innocent here, given the way they took over the oil industry a few decades ago. But this move was particularly audacious (the media‘s favorite word right now), and just like in Iraq, this administration is going to find that once you break it, you bought it…creating something functional down there is going to be a long, messy, complicated road… not the kind of follow-through effort the US is well known for.

If there’s any silver lining to this, it’s watching the heads of the MAGA Morons explode as their supposed isolationist figurehead becomes the neocon imperialist. Elections have consequences indeed.

Maduro’s “crime” is the same as Saddam Hussein”s - he was selling oil in something other than US dollars.  The American empire needs petrodollars in order to continue.  Trump has assured China that they can continue to buy Venezuelan oil, but I’m pretty sure that they will no longer be paying for it with Yuan.

No no no, we can't tolerate big moustaches.

Ward Smithwrote:

Maduro’s “crime” is the same as Saddam Hussein”s - he was selling oil in something other than US dollars.  The American empire needs petrodollars in order to continue.  Trump has assured China that they can continue to buy Venezuelan oil, but I’m pretty sure that they will no longer be paying for it with Yuan.

Don’t forget Muammar Gaddafi and his plan for a Gold Dinar. 

It’s also about control of the claimed largest known petroleum reserves. 

China already sought to control the production of Venezuelan oil. The CNPC which is totally controlled by the CCP was the main investor in Venezuela’s oil extraction industry. 

Also realize that for all of our faults America is leaps and bounds ahead of China in respect for human rights (see Tiananmen Square massacre with about 10,000 protestors slaughtered, Tibet, treatment of ethic Uyghurs, disregard for workers rights, lack of legitimate elections, disregard of sovereign waters and fishing treaties,  etc.). 

It’s unfortunate that global politics is always about the projection of power but to believe otherwise seems naive to me. 

And yeah, the narco bullshit is pablum for the masses. 

Lori, you're looking in the wrong place for diet, sleep, exercise advice. The NYT is a much better source. Not that I follow it -- mostly just read the suggested programs and cringe.   But the NYT actually does have a lot of good healthy living advice.

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Finally got the Orange ‘nemesis’ at Urban Climb. I’ve been trying this for a few weeks as it felt do-able, and then I hurt my ribs on it. 

Gave it another go contrary to Pauline’s advice and got it!

https://youtube.com/shorts/ERTKaS7CU6U?si=OE5SHgRIb7deV_rj

What’s the vibe like there now you’ve snapped up Venezuela as your own? I guess the positive is you’ll maybe get cheaper gas now you have all that oil.

Love the Curry jersey, but why in a climbing gym in Australia??

Alex Smith wrote:

Honestly, Gyms are key to staying in climbing shape. Look at Carl

Outside is still the draw, but weather, distances to travel, and safety make it more of a monthly outing for me and others I know. 

Before 2000s, if you wanted to climb, it was outside. Now, I see many over 50 and higher at the gym at 10am on a Tuesday. 

Gyms these days are awesome. Don't know if I'd still be climbing as much or at a challenging level if they werent what they are now 

Ha ha. Thing about gyms is you can get a LOT of volume in without much messing around with setups. My knees are bad so getting to crags can be difficult. I’m still trying for three to four days a week of climbing, indoors Tuesday And Thursday and outdoors Sat and Sun if it’s not raining or too hot. Temps moving up in to the 40s this week. 

Ship Twrote:

Love the Curry jersey, but why in a climbing gym in Australia??

I have no idea. I wanted a singlet, that matched my trousers, so bought it. I had to Google who Curry is/was.  I have NO idea about basketball at all. 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I have no idea. I wanted a singlet, that matched my trousers, so bought it. I had to Google who Curry is/was.  I have NO idea about basketball at all. 

Curry is the greatest shooter ever in basketball history. He once had a teammate from Australia named Andrew Bogut who was the first overall pick in the NBA draft back in the day.

Bb Cc wrote:

I went to a Dr after a "fall", opening a low drawer. Found myself suddenly on my back. Evaluation, X-rays, Consultation: A lumbar (#5?) is out of place, looks twisted) with minor calcification. Could be from disease or injury, was it jumping into hay piles, or falling off tree top swinging, or poor trampoline technique, or sudden over the handle bar stops when misjudging clearances, or crashing bump skiing? Hard to say. I asked what I "can" do? He handed me a pamphlet covering good posture and back mechanics: said I can do whatever I can tolerate. I was 20. Since then I have been a resort skier/instructor, tele-skier, snowboarder, volunteer firefighter and EMT, whitewater raft guide, motorcycle rider, odd tree and building climber, construction laborer, lumber yard Summer worker, traveler, hiker, skydiver, father (showing kids how to...) and now climber (9 years, gym, trad, lead & follow), 15-20 mile day hiker, and SAR. Guess my toleration is high. Favorite Dr visit ever.

Go forward and "do what you can tolerate". A good Dr has no more ability to keep you young than help you "age well".

I am 63. See you in the mountains...

Same.

I’ve known my doctor since my 20s. He tells me to lose weight, hike (not walks), climbing is good (he remembers me from my youth). He then made some wing suit suggestions.

Honestly, I think he’s trying to get rid of me so he can hit on his 20 something nurses without me blurting out something to the effect of “Wow, we’ve known each other for 40 years”, then I “correct” it to “30”, erm “20”? More than 10? 

Ship Twrote:

Curry is the greatest shooter ever in basketball history. He once had a teammate from Australia named Andrew Bogut who was the first overall pick in the NBA draft back in the day.

Bogut was huge at the U of U (retired his jersey).  I remember him well.

Kinda funny...

Also...

VanHorn, Miller, Bogut and the fat porn loving coach at the U. Those were the days!

The differences now compared to then.

Iraq - Congress and the UN approved action. Many believed the lies about WMD.

Panama - Noriega was a drug runner, far more than was intended by the US in his informant role. And Panama actually started the war by firing on troops who had long been stationed in the canal zone.

Venezuela - NO Approval by Congress.   And there was no significant evidence presented that Maduro is a significant drug runner to the USA.

Panama was a distraction from Bushes failed economy.  Venezuela is a distraction from the Epstein files and other criminal activity.. Lots of other criminal activity. 

Alan Rubinwrote:

What concerns doctors working with 'geriatrics' ( which, as much as we hate to admit it, includes at least most of us) are falls to the ground ( or into objects) that can result in breaking our (generally) more fragile bones--most significantly our hips. Hopefully, when climbing, at all ages, but especially now, we are trying very hard to avoid leader falls that are likely to result in impacts ( obviously bouldering is a different story!!!), and top-rope falls are much less likely to result in any such contacts. So, I agree, that 'routine' climbing falls do not need to be 'reported' to MDs ( unless you find that you are increasingly 'coming off' unexpectedly).
Those 'falls on scree' ( or similar 'rough' terrain) though not uncommon, however, do entail the risks that concern the doctors, so even more important for us to do all that we can to avoid them. Over the last few years I have become increasingly dependent on my hiking poles ( from not using them at all, to almost constantly even on fairly mellow trails over the course of about a year), and felt them to be very beneficial. A couple of years ago I slipped ( pole-less) on a residual early spring patch of ice hidden by leaves ( New England!!!) and it was quite an impact---fortunately just a painful bruise, but lesson learned....!!!!

So, avoiding situations where you could possibly fall and hurt yourself, seems to fit into one of those concessions that I mentioned in my other post. Of course "possibly fall and hurt yourself" is subjective. IME most modern sport climbs do not reach that threshold for me yet, but everyone has to draw that line for themselves constantly.  I read that John Bachar once had a discussion about soloing with someone while standing in a parking lot where he told the person 'You're soloing right now', I gathered that the statement was lost on the person he was talking to, as well as to many of the people that I've related the story to. For the record, I don't boulder except on my Mini Moonboard with 21" of foam under me and don't lead climbs that I'm likely to fall on without top rope assessment first. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here, but it's an interesting discussion. Carry on.

For all the 'guardrails' that supposedly exist in the legal system and constitution, there are many, many ways to work around them (or disregard them completely) when you hold the top levers of power. Every president has pushed these boundaries to some degree in some facet of achieving their agenda- this administration is simply being far more brazen and bald-faced in their efforts. Which, you know, I wouldn't mind so much if their agenda was about directly helping the average American (through some economic strategy or...hello?...health insurance), but when these brazen strategies are used for potential war (over fucking oil), it's really upsetting.

Though it's not at all politically realistic, in many respects I wish they'd just said straight up, 'We're going into Venezuela to re-establish the oil industry', and skipped the whole BS narco-trafficking line. Their motivations were so transparently, blatantly obvious from the start- at least don't insult our intelligence by pissing on my leg and tell me it's raining outside.